Why I prefer revolvers...
- Thread starter rainbowbob
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ArmedBear:
I type this with a J Frame in the pocket and not a Glock to be seen in the gun safe. I agree with you that an owner "pays your money, takes your pick." However, I'm hardly a member in the Glocknut choir, much less a star soloist. I mean only to suggest that a defensive gun ought to be well researched, to include knowing the weak points of the system (IE tool to user.) After identifying potential problems, they should be worked through with mods to the equipment or the person who intends to use it. For example, if I were to go back to Glock, I'd do so with the knowledge that I need to focus on having a firm grip and do some wrist-curls if my one-handed shooting isn't up to snuff.
All this is mitigated, of course, if the diagnoses of magazine problems is correct.
I type this with a J Frame in the pocket and not a Glock to be seen in the gun safe. I agree with you that an owner "pays your money, takes your pick." However, I'm hardly a member in the Glocknut choir, much less a star soloist. I mean only to suggest that a defensive gun ought to be well researched, to include knowing the weak points of the system (IE tool to user.) After identifying potential problems, they should be worked through with mods to the equipment or the person who intends to use it. For example, if I were to go back to Glock, I'd do so with the knowledge that I need to focus on having a firm grip and do some wrist-curls if my one-handed shooting isn't up to snuff.
All this is mitigated, of course, if the diagnoses of magazine problems is correct.
Sorry if I insinuated that you are a Glocknut. I really wasn't referring to your post, but rather a hundred others, maybe a thousand.
If there's a problem with a Glock, it's always the user. The design of the Glock is without a weakness. That sort of thing.
I don't think there's a semiauto in the world that will never jam if you hold it upside down and shoot it with a compromised grip. That may have something to do with the popularity of J-frames as BUGs on cops ankles, etc.
I type this without a J-frame, but that's just because I got home and put it on the nightstand.
What we're touching on here is an important distinction, I think.
Inside that nightstand is a hi-cap .45 (not a Glock, but a tupperware striker pistol all the same). If I should ever have to use it (I sure hope not), it will probably be in a situation where I can hold it much like I would a bullseye pistol in a match if I want to. It stays clean. The firepower is worth the slight reliability cost.
If there's a problem with a Glock, it's always the user. The design of the Glock is without a weakness. That sort of thing.
I don't think there's a semiauto in the world that will never jam if you hold it upside down and shoot it with a compromised grip. That may have something to do with the popularity of J-frames as BUGs on cops ankles, etc.
I type this without a J-frame, but that's just because I got home and put it on the nightstand.
What we're touching on here is an important distinction, I think.
Inside that nightstand is a hi-cap .45 (not a Glock, but a tupperware striker pistol all the same). If I should ever have to use it (I sure hope not), it will probably be in a situation where I can hold it much like I would a bullseye pistol in a match if I want to. It stays clean. The firepower is worth the slight reliability cost.
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I've had more revolvers mess up on me than autos. When autos mess up it is usually fixed in a matter of seconds with no tools. When a revolver messes up you are probably out of action until you get some tools, or a smith. Both have their place.
REAPER4206969
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HippieMagic
Member
I LOLed at the cop's name... maybe it is wrong of me to laugh when a Vidal Colon has a shootout... but I chuckled...
christcorp
Member
I guess I would have had more sympathy if they had left out the part about shooting the BG 13 times. 1) If the officer missed most of those 13 shots, (Said he Fired 13 times); then that officer needs a LOT MORE TRAINING. He shouldn't be carrying a gun. 2) OR The BG was hit the majority of the time, in which case, how was a 14th shot going to be much more help. This guy was not meant to die.
I personally believe the first theory. The officer needs a lot more training.
I personally believe the first theory. The officer needs a lot more training.
Confederate
Member
One should not judge all autos by Glocks.
If I were a police department chief, I wouldn't allow Glocks on the Force. I think they're an inherently dangerous gun. I wouldn't want my men to have to jack a round into the chamber when they felt threatened and I certainly wouldn't want them carrying them with a round up the snoot. Cops are having to put in a lot of extra hours, they get tired and many of them get a bit careless. Glocks have not shown me any positive benefits over any of the more conventional autos. Glock magazines also are a pain to reload under stress.
I'm an advocate of cocked-'n-locked. I also am okay with DA first shot if it's easy enough to fire. The Beretta 9mm guns I've fired are too stiff for the first shot (which is many times the most important). In fact, if I had a Beretta and got in a tense situation, I'd just cock the damn thing beforehand.
I believe people can learn how to effectively use a Glock, but putting a safety on a trigger makes about as much sense as putting a brake on an accelerator.
If I were a police department chief, I wouldn't allow Glocks on the Force. I think they're an inherently dangerous gun. I wouldn't want my men to have to jack a round into the chamber when they felt threatened and I certainly wouldn't want them carrying them with a round up the snoot. Cops are having to put in a lot of extra hours, they get tired and many of them get a bit careless. Glocks have not shown me any positive benefits over any of the more conventional autos. Glock magazines also are a pain to reload under stress.
I'm an advocate of cocked-'n-locked. I also am okay with DA first shot if it's easy enough to fire. The Beretta 9mm guns I've fired are too stiff for the first shot (which is many times the most important). In fact, if I had a Beretta and got in a tense situation, I'd just cock the damn thing beforehand.
I believe people can learn how to effectively use a Glock, but putting a safety on a trigger makes about as much sense as putting a brake on an accelerator.
The annoying Glock fanboys are only equalled by the just as annoying 1911 fanboys.
It doesn't matter whether it's a Sig, Glock, HK, 1911, etc., eventually you're going to get a bad magazine. I've owned Kahrs, Sigs, Glocks and 1911s and I've experienced it and seen it with every design out there. They're mechanical devices and they do fail. That's why Cops should always carry backups. They should also not become complacent enough to think that ammo capacity (or gun design) makes up for poor gunfighting skills under stress.
It doesn't matter whether it's a Sig, Glock, HK, 1911, etc., eventually you're going to get a bad magazine. I've owned Kahrs, Sigs, Glocks and 1911s and I've experienced it and seen it with every design out there. They're mechanical devices and they do fail. That's why Cops should always carry backups. They should also not become complacent enough to think that ammo capacity (or gun design) makes up for poor gunfighting skills under stress.
.357MagTaurus
Member
8 shot Taurus Revolver
Love my 8 shot Taurus .357 Magnum. If the BG can count to six, he probably thinks I am empty, SURPRISE, not done yet. This gun is an absolute "Thunder Boomer "when loaded with 158 gr. .357. 4" ported barrel may have something to do with that. Went to the State run outdoor range today. Love shooting the .357 rounds, but that can really get expensive. Still don't own an automatic, may get one someday. Like My Taurus Revolver.
Love my 8 shot Taurus .357 Magnum. If the BG can count to six, he probably thinks I am empty, SURPRISE, not done yet. This gun is an absolute "Thunder Boomer "when loaded with 158 gr. .357. 4" ported barrel may have something to do with that. Went to the State run outdoor range today. Love shooting the .357 rounds, but that can really get expensive. Still don't own an automatic, may get one someday. Like My Taurus Revolver.
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Duke of Doubt
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Confederate: "In fact, if I had a Beretta and got in a tense situation, I'd just cock the damn thing beforehand."
That's exactly what I do. The Israelis do the same.
Normally I carry my 92FS without round in chamber, but if things are looking a little wierd, as they sometimes though rarely do, I'll chamber a round and engage the safety, and reholster the gun. Next step? Unsafety and cock the hammer. At that point it's a matter of imminent use, not casual or ordinary carry at all. I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've had to do that in public. But it wasn't at all difficult or hasty.
That's exactly what I do. The Israelis do the same.
Normally I carry my 92FS without round in chamber, but if things are looking a little wierd, as they sometimes though rarely do, I'll chamber a round and engage the safety, and reholster the gun. Next step? Unsafety and cock the hammer. At that point it's a matter of imminent use, not casual or ordinary carry at all. I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've had to do that in public. But it wasn't at all difficult or hasty.
Vern Humphrey
Member
Regardless of why it happened, it did happen. If an M1911 failed because of a sloppily fitted part, revolver lovers would be claiming it proved the M1911 was not as reliable as automatic lovers claim.
A failure is a failure.
REAPER4206969
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WOW! What a recipe for Fail.
Duke of Doubt
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Reaper: "WOW! What a recipe for Fail."
Yet, no FAIL and a history of WIN.
Yet, no FAIL and a history of WIN.
REAPER4206969
Member
Consistency is the foundation of good shooting and gun fight tactics. If you ever need your pistol you are going to lose, and losing in self defense means maggots are going to be eating your eyes. First you are carrying one of the worlds finest pistols there is no sound reason not to carry it properly and properly is full magazine +1. How do you perform your half assed carry practices? When you are standing in line at Wal-Mart and see some shady looking characters in the parking lot do you say “Let me just whip this out!” then draw your 92 run the slide, de cock and re holster. Then after you are accosted by the receipt checker you notice the Tangos in the parking lot are up to no good you reach under your shirt flip off the safety and thumb back the hammer? I am not busting your balls, I just do not want to see one of my brother in arms in the obituaries because you forgot what condition your pistol was in and got your ass Owned by some gangsta with a sharpen screwdriver in a Wal-Mart parking lot.
rainbowbob
Member
I think the operative word there is...
...yet.
I can't imagine why anyone would carry a firearm that required the time and effort to prep it for action that you describe, DoD.
Bad stuff can happen without any warning...anytime...anywhere.
If you have time to go through your routine, you probably have time to vacate the scene with no need for a firearm.
If you don't...well, you don't.
RedAlert
Member
Several people on here have focused in on the 13 rounds fired & the perp was only injured.
I doubt a revolver, 15 rounds or 7 rounds capacity would have changed the outcome.
Adrenalin rushes in an ruins the controlled steadiness that the officer originally had. For sure he isn't firing at a fixed wide open target. The Perp would be on the move and actively taking what ever cover was available. Perhaps some of the LEO's shots were taken to keep the perp's head down.
We can tell from what little we know of this case. Magazines and closets are a lot alike. We'll use all the space we have, no matter how much we start out with. Closets end up full and mags end up empty.
I remember hearing LEO being asked to comment on the 68 rounds fired by multiple LEOs during a single engagemet. His comment was (not word for word) to the effect "68 rounds. The only reason we didn't fire more than 68 rounds is we only had 68 rounds"
I doubt a revolver, 15 rounds or 7 rounds capacity would have changed the outcome.
Adrenalin rushes in an ruins the controlled steadiness that the officer originally had. For sure he isn't firing at a fixed wide open target. The Perp would be on the move and actively taking what ever cover was available. Perhaps some of the LEO's shots were taken to keep the perp's head down.
We can tell from what little we know of this case. Magazines and closets are a lot alike. We'll use all the space we have, no matter how much we start out with. Closets end up full and mags end up empty.
I remember hearing LEO being asked to comment on the 68 rounds fired by multiple LEOs during a single engagemet. His comment was (not word for word) to the effect "68 rounds. The only reason we didn't fire more than 68 rounds is we only had 68 rounds"
HB
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I have never understood this argument... at all. When a semi fails, it might be for any number of reasons, if a revolver fails, it broke.
Revolver=part breaks, out of action
Auto=Fail to Load, fail to eject, jam, stovepipe... AND parts failure.
If an extractor breaks or whatever, an auto is just as screwed as a revolver...
HB
Breaking parts is rare with either. And I agree if a part breaks during a SHTF situation you are in just as much trouble with either type. As someone pointed out earlier a revolver that is kept clean is about as reliable as it gets until a reload is needed. Which is fine for most home defense situations or even most police work. Most problems with autos can be cleared up in a matter of 2-3 seconds.
Where the auto has an advantage is in harsh dirty conditions like the military encounters. If I had to pick up a gun I found in the mud and hope it would work to save my live I would prefer an auto. An auto is more likely to continue to work after being dropped onto pavement or other hard surface from a height. I realize these conditions are not likely for the average person, but are very likely in a war zone.
If you do encounter a problem where mud and grit has tied up your gun and made it useless the auto can be taken down and cleaned with no tools. The Rugers are the only revolvers that allow you do do this in the field with no special tools.
Where the auto has an advantage is in harsh dirty conditions like the military encounters. If I had to pick up a gun I found in the mud and hope it would work to save my live I would prefer an auto. An auto is more likely to continue to work after being dropped onto pavement or other hard surface from a height. I realize these conditions are not likely for the average person, but are very likely in a war zone.
If you do encounter a problem where mud and grit has tied up your gun and made it useless the auto can be taken down and cleaned with no tools. The Rugers are the only revolvers that allow you do do this in the field with no special tools.
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