Why is the "Dirty Harry" wrist brace grip considered bad?

Pistolay

Pistolay

Contributing Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
284
Location
New Hampshire
DirtyHarry.jpg

A couple of years ago I got rid of my Glock 42 because my arthritic wrists had deteriorated to the point where I was limpwristing the gun no matter how tightly I gripped it. My last range trip, the RSO was having no problems at all with it, but I was getting almost a 100% failure rate. He suggested gripping my wrist with my support hand, and I did, and the gun became 100% (and I mean 100%) reliable. However, I don't want to have different grips for different guns, and the wrist brace grip is almost universally frowned upon, so I got rid of the gun.

Fast forward, I've now owned 3 P365-380s, and all of them have been 100% reliable with FMJ (I carry SIG Elite FMJ in them) but choke frequently feeding truncated cone JHPs like Hornady XTP and SIG V-Crown. On my way out of the SIG Experience Center range today after wasting a box of XTPs, I got into a discussion about it with one of the range guys, and based on the symptoms I described (he didn't see me shoot), he thought it sounded like I was breaking my wrist. I explained my history with the G42 and the wrist brace grip and he said "you have to do what works for you."

Anyway, I'm going back in the next couple of days to see if the wrist brace grip makes a difference, and if it does, I'm going to have to think seriously about switching to it. But I'm wondering, why is that grip so despised. It worked great with my G42.
 
Proper stance, proper hold, proper technique, they all make sense... if I were in the military. Since I am not in the military I do what works best for ME! As long as it doesn't endanger you or someone else I reccomend doing what ever works best for you.

I take a pragmatic approach to shooting hand guns. I do not concentrate on taking a "proper" stance and I use a hold that comes natural to me. I practice shooting from several more casual stances which "I" believe allows me to be more prepared for more varied situations. I had a co-worker friend correct my stance then show me the "proper" stance to use. He then proceeded to shoot the sun screen support off of my chronograph that was only 2 yards away. The problem was, of course, that I mounted the chronograph too low to shoot through it with a proper stance.
 
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dobedo said:
I am 68 and shoot a .500 S&W Magnum BFR with full loads. One thing I have done to keep my wrist strength is use a hand and wrist strengthen device. It also has a laser and can be used to train how to use a steady and smooth trigger pull.
View attachment 1169327
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I have one of those in high tension. It's done wonders for my aim and it makes my cats happy, but it does nothing for my wrist.
 
Im betting youre anticipating the pain with recoil when the gun goes off and easing your arm back with it, causing the limp wrist problem. With the other hand there for support, youre not doing that and bolstering the mass there behind the gun to let the gun function.

Hey, if that's what it takes to be able to shoot, then go with what works. Better than the alternative.

When we were kids, those 3" or so wide leather wrist bands/watch straps were all the rage. Maybe something like that would help with the support issue, and you can revive the trend. :)
 
trackskippy said:
Im betting youre anticipating the pain with recoil when the gun goes off and easing your arm back with it, causing the limp wrist problem.
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The problem with my wrists is much more weakness than pain. The SIG is very soft shooting (as was the G42) and is actually quite pleasant to shoot. I'm 70 years old (tomorrow) and so near-sighted and astigmatic that my front sight is blurry, but I can put an entire 50-round box of range ammo into a circle the size of a dinner plate at 15 yards with the SIGs. I don't think I could do that if I was anticipating the recoil. OTOH, My LCP MAXs are very unpleasant to shoot, and I actually do occasionally anticipate the recoil, which affects my accuracy (I won't even try to shoot them past 10 yards) but doesn't cause any malfunctions at all in either of them. I suspect the problem has more to do with the soft shooting, light recoiling gun being much more sensitive to any kind of wrist movement while harder recoiling gun like the LCP doesn't care what my wrist is doing.
 
Have you tried stretching and doing resistance training using bands? I find bands very effective and not prone to pain like weights:

youtu.be

Wrist Extension Exercise with Resistance Band

Welcome to Meglio TVFollow our quick and simple video guide on the use of Meglio Resistance Bands.In this video we'll show you how to use a Meglio resistance...
youtu.be youtu.be

There are other exercises if you look for them. Good luck!
 
Pistolay said:
The problem with my wrists is much more weakness than pain. The SIG is very soft shooting (as was the G42) and is actually quite pleasant to shoot. I'm 70 years old (tomorrow) and so near-sighted and astigmatic that my front sight is blurry, but I can put an entire 50-round box of range ammo into a circle the size of a dinner plate at 15 yards with the SIGs. I don't think I could do that if I was anticipating the recoil. OTOH, My LCP MAXs are very unpleasant to shoot, and I actually do occasionally anticipate the recoil, which affects my accuracy (I won't even try to shoot them past 10 yards) but doesn't cause any malfunctions at all in either of them. I suspect the problem has more to do with the soft shooting, light recoiling gun being much more sensitive to any kind of wrist movement while harder recoiling gun like the LCP doesn't care what my wrist is doing.
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Youre doing something (subconsciously?) to cause the gun not to cycle, and most all guns, including Glocks, will cycle, with no grip at all on the gun, as long as there is mass behind the gun (and often even if there isnt) and as long as the shooter doesn't allow the gun and their arm to move rearward with recoil. The last part is the important part not to do.

Limp wristing really has nothing to do with the wrist. It happens because the shooter allows the gun and their arm to move rearward together under recoil, which dampens the guns ability to cycle.

Hows your weak hand? Does it have the same problem as your strong hand? If not, then try shooting the gun with your weak hand, and see if it cycles. That may give you a clue.

If you want some help with your eyes, check out the "top focal" type shooting glasses. I have the same problem, and they work great. And if you only put the power lens on your strong eye, and leave the other without power, you can shoot reactively, with both eyes open, and have clear, sharp sights, and a clear target.
 
Shoot in the way that you’re most comfortable with. Do what works for YOU.

Regarding wrists and arthritis. The most painful gun I ever owned or fired was a Kel-Tec P3AT .380 pistol. Heavier guns reduce snappy recoil.
I also have arthritis in my wrists and most especially my thumb joints where the thumb meets the wrist.
Icy Hot Lidocaine roll on is a Godsend for my thumb / wrist arthritis. Give it a try. No smell, no heat, just relief.
 
dobedo said:
I am 68 and shoot a .500 S&W Magnum BFR with full loads. One thing I have done to keep my wrist strength is use a hand and wrist strengthen device. It also has a laser and can be used to train how to use a steady and smooth trigger pull.
View attachment 1169327
Click to expand...
Wow, what a great idea! I never knew about this. Wonder if it will help with my arthritis. It is getting to the point that I might hang up my 686 as my EDC and drop to the 1911. I need to crawl out of my cave more often.
 
Pat Riot said:
Regarding wrists and arthritis. The most painful gun I ever owned or fired was a Kel-Tec P3AT .380 pistol. Heavier guns reduce snappy recoil.
I also have arthritis in my wrists and most especially my thumb joints where the thumb meets the wrist.
Icy Hot Lidocaine roll on is a Godsend for my thumb / wrist arthritis. Give it a try. No smell, no heat, just relief.
Click to expand...
Thanks Pat, I have the same problem...60 yrs of shooting handguns brought it on...I've not tried the Lidocaine Roll On BUT WILL TOMORROW!! Rod
 
I find that hold far less stable then the standard 2 handed hold. But give it a try and if it works it works.
 
Understand that those techniques / skills taught by the military were very good at getting 90% + service members up to speed. And that was its intended purpose. Some can utilize those mechanics and training to its fullest value. That is great but it is n dogma. Margret Murdock was fully in the screw that military training stuff. She added a lot of her own mechanics to her shooting skill set. She went on to be America's highest regarded and achieving female marksman ever! The point is Try "everything" just because others without accreditation bemoan technique or purpose doesn't validate their position. Results -DO! So, relax, try something new or something that is speaking to you in terms or marksman function. Even Jerry tired weird stuff and learned something. Be Well shooters!
 
I've been a firearms instructor since 1976. I've never told anyone to not use a technique that worked for them unless I could show them something that worked better...for them.
 
Wait, what? The "Dirty Harry wrist brace grip?"

I thought it was the "Kelly wrist brace grip." As an aside, wasn't the original Charlie's Angels just awesome TV? (For a teen male in 1976, anyway...) Fun fact: Jaclyn Smith was the first actress on network TV to wear what later became known as "Daisy Dukes."
1693633326868.png

Pistolay said:
why is that grip so despised.
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Because you're still basically shooting one-handed; two hands on the pistol/revolver simply provides far more control. Having your weak hand holding your shooting hand wrist when shooting does nothing to mitigate the effect of recoil on your shooting hand wrist. I have severe osteoarthritis in my right wrist (having broken most of the carpals and/or the distal radius on three occasions); it's constantly painful and plagues me greatly these days. A "wrist brace" grip is not gonna do anything to help, and anyway, two hands on the gun are better than one if you have weakness in your hand/wrist. (I am not an MD, but one of my old shooting buddies is an orthopedic surgeon.)
 
dobedo said:
I am 68 and shoot a .500 S&W Magnum BFR with full loads. One thing I have done to keep my wrist strength is use a hand and wrist strengthen device. It also has a laser and can be used to train how to use a steady and smooth trigger pull.
View attachment 1169327
Click to expand...

That picture brings back bad memories of pain & torture sessions after two rotator cuff repairs. The first time it caused it my hand and wrist to swell and ache. The surgeon told me to stop doing that exercise which caused a heated discussion between the therapist and I when I refused to use it anymore. She seemed to think she knew more than the doctor. I won the argument by just laying it down and saying let's move on. With the other it gave no problem. Come to think of it everything involved hurt but the hand thingy was the only one that caused damage. There was big burly guy who was doing the same thing as I was for our first few sessions and he would have tears streaming down his face.

I tend to do what works best for me when shooting and if someone wants to frown on it that is their problem, not mine.
 
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