Why is there such insularity in the gun community?

[NG VI]

What's "zyclon-b"?

 

[Officers'Wife]

Hi NG VI,

What's "zyclon-b"?

I'm glad you asked because I don't have a any idea either.

 

[Sam1911]

Zyklon B was/is a cyanide based chemical pesticide most known as the primary chemical used by the Nazis in their gas chambers.

Zyklon B was also the name of a short-lived Nowegian death metal band. The disturbing imagery associated with the name is typical of that type of music.

 

[Werewolf]

Yeah.. well.. you guys go ahead and shoot a guy for wearing a t-shirt, and see how that reality works out for you.

Ummmm...

Where the heck did that come from? Nobody advocated shooting the kid. A poster simply related a story where the little punk was escorted off a range where WWII vets and holocaust were shooting because they took umbrage over his T-shirt.

 

[ny32182]

Ummmm...

Where the heck did that come from? Nobody advocated shooting the kid. A poster simply related a story where the little punk was escorted off a range where WWII vets and holocaust were shooting because they took umbrage over his T-shirt.

Right here....

He was summarily escorted off the Trap range by a bunch of ordinarily nice old guys, threatening him, with shotguns in their hands.

Now lets suppose for a minute the little punk decided he wasn't going to be "summarily escorted off" a place he presumably has the right to be. What happens next?

 

[Werewolf]

Right here....



Now lets suppose for a minute the little punk decided he wasn't going to be "summarily escorted off" a place he presumably has the right to be. What happens next?

See post #48...

Reality kicks in and the kid loses. Whether he survives the encounter or not - the end result will not be good for him.

And that's the point NY32182 - you're assertions about who was in the right and who was in the wrong are inarguable. Morally and legally the old guys were wrong. That said I don't imagine that would be a lot of comfort to the kid's parents were he to kill some old guys and holocaust survivors because he rightfully felt threatened and legally retaliated. He'd still be dead or in prison either way. Reality can be a real bitch some times.

 

[NG VI]

So it is entirely possible that the guy just really liked the band and had no idea it was the main ingredient in Nazi murder gas? I have kind of a hard time believing he was a neno-Nazi, based strictly off him having tattoos (it's 2010, everyone and their mother has tattoos) and wearing a shirt with the name of a metal band on it. The fact that the band chose to name themselves after a poison used during the Holocaust doesn't automatically mean that their lyrics had anything to do with Nazism, or the Holocaust, or anything really.

Not something I would ever name my band after, but then again I don't like metal much anymore. Reggae for the win, German reggae especially, and ironically, given the conversation.

I dunno. I can't help but think that adjudicating him as a neo-Nazi and not just an uninformed metalhead with a band T-shirt on isn't very accurate. I think maybe an initial approach by one of the old fellows to ask him if he had any idea what the word on his shirt meant would have been a much more rational approach.

That would have taken maybe four minutes to teach him a little 20th Century history, and I'm betting he wouldn't be wearing that shirt anymore. The way it played out he most likely left the range completely baffled by the inexplicably hostile (and felonious) behavior of a group of old men.

And I'm still baffled by the attitude of the friend of my friend.

 

[ny32182]

And that's the point NY32182 - you're assertions about who was in the right and who was in the wrong are inarguable. Morally and legally the old guys were wrong. That said I don't imagine that would be a lot of comfort to the kid's parents were he to kill some old guys and holocaust survivors because he rightfully felt threatened and legally retaliated. He'd still be dead or in prison either way. Reality can be a real bitch some times.

And like I said... let them shoot someone over a t-shirt, and see how that reality works out for them.

 

[Sam1911]

This has been an interesting diversion. Let's consider the story of t-shirt boy concluded -- NOW.

If there's life left in the original discussion, great.

 

[hso]

I've been in shops on both ends of the spectrum and everything in between.

I've spent time in one that welcomes those who are "serious shooters" and seems to barely tolerate the bulk of its customers who seem to never have handled a gun before but are happily spending money there. While they're never overtly rude their only interest is in the experienced gun owners.

Another had a couch and a couple of chairs and shooting magazines scattered on a coffee table in front of a big screen constantly showing shooting related videos. They also had honor pay coffee. The guys that worked there greeted everyone that came in the door and asked if the potential customer needed any help or just wanted to look around first.

I've been in shops that fit nicely between these two examples in welcoming new potential shooters.

 

[Hatterasguy]

Having just got into shooting I can't put my finger on it. On one hand I have meet some very friendly people, on the other I meet a lot of paranoid end of the world nuts to.

I'm going to go very general here for a moment, but its almost like people in the shooting sports don't trust you enough to be friendly until they are sure you are "one of them".


I suspect its because of how the media has represented them, and the anti gun legals winds blowing against them.

 

[shockwave]

Just speaking for myself, I've found gun shop people, fellow owners, range participants, IPSC and IDPA members, and club members to all be a very congenial and helpful group. In all the years I've been shooting and participating in this culture, I have had no bad experiences whatsoever.

Some rules of thumb I follow are: be polite, ask if you don't know, agree if you're asked for a favor (like taking down someone's targets or loaning your stapler), talk to the ROs, etc. Mainly, though, it's really a matter of noticing how people carry themselves, how they talk, how they dress. That goes for a lot of other things, too.

In fact, you could extend that a bit and just note that in general, getting along with any group of people requires a bit of observation and willingness to observe their standards of conduct. Some of the discussion in this thread, while veering off-topic, actually does address this explicitly. There's often a fine line between craven conformity and respect for the way other people do things. The wise person will grasp the difference.

 

[danprkr]

German reggae

WTH - I didn't even know there was such a thing.

Anyway, like any social activity you can expect some amount of standoffishness when initially trying to enter a group. Some groups are better than others. Even within larger groups. For instance I have found the Ballroom and C/W dancers much more cliquish than the swing dancers. Which is one of the things that attracted me to swing dance away from ballroom and/or country. Then you add in the political issues associated with our sport, and you get a bunch of guys who are going to be a bit hesitant to throw you a welcome party until they have some idea of who you are and where you stand. Just keep showing up, doing your thing safely and politely, and sooner than you think you'll be in.

 

[fireside44]

I will admit to being insular.

I look down the firing line and all there is is automatics. I look back down at my revolver, shake my head, and go back to shooting.

By the same token I've brought I dunno how many new guys shooting, all of whom went out and bought themselves firearms after. Seems I can't hardly go to the range without three or four kling ons tagging along for an hour or two of quiet shooting...lol One of these became a bigger gun nut than me. Of course they all wind up being auto shooters.

*shakes head

See, I am insular but not by choice.

*shakes head

 

[NG VI]

OT- Danprkr, yeah, Seeed and Gentleman are the two I am very familiar with, one of my favorite bands and favorite singer, respectively. Seeed did a cover of Tide Is High that's pretty sweet, and a song about living on a roof and never coming down, to get out of the city grind and all that bad graffitti.


I think the observations that people tend to want to be sure a newcomer isn't some troll or maybe (and even worse) an actual living, breathing media or anti-gun stereotype of a gun owner.

 

[22-rimfire]

I'd try to find a club within a hours drive of you and join. Get to know some of the folks and the other things will begin to fall into place. I have noticed other folks from NC having difficulty finding a range, so I guess in a large part it depends on where you're located as driving several hours to shoot is not a practical option in my opinion.

 

[bigalexe]

Second post in the thread nailed it as far as the Original Question is concerned.

Getting used as a scapegoat for all that's wrong and being the subject of witch-hunts for terrorists and drug addicts kinda of makes people a little wary of those they don't know.

I find the way to avoid the insularity of the gun community is to be brought in by a friend that can vouch for you. If you walk onto a range alone and no one knows you consider we don't even know if you are sure which end the bullet comes out, or if you aren't really there to shoot but instead working for Brady, Bloomberg & Friends conducting one of their "stings" where they commit crimes and then blame us.

Walking onto a range with a friend that knows who can at least say "This is bob, he is new, but he knows the 4 rules." Makes all the difference in the world.

I do a lot of work with "Community Oriented" organizations and such, I've found the nicest people I've ever met are the ones at the gun range. Heck after a few months I even got given a gun by someone I had never known because they heard I was looking for one and it was taking up room on their shelf collecting dust.

It all depends on you.

 

[huntsman]

I find the way to avoid the insularity of the gun community is to be brought in by a friend that can vouch for you. If you walk onto a range alone and no one knows you consider we don't even know if you are sure which end the bullet comes out,

That's fine with the private clubs, they can play their little power games and have the clicks but if your a paying customer demand they act professional.

 

[danprkr]

That's fine with the private clubs, they can play their little power games and have the clicks but if your a paying customer demand they act professional.

I didn't get the impression that he was talking about the employees, but more the other shooters. Now don't get me wrong we've all been in gun establishments from stores to ranges that are hugely cliquish, and that's wrong from a professionalism stand point. My advice on that is as always free market - take your money elsewhere. But, I don't think that was what he was asking.

Dan

 

[oneounceload]

And now to bring t back to the OP -

Where I have lived before, and currently live now, any new person that shows an interest in joining our squad when we shoot sporting, especially a new person who hasn't done it before, is always welcomed and given all the advice our collective minds have (which may or may not be a good thing ).

Hunting here in FL I have found to be a challenge; I was used to wide open public lands, not hunt clubs; fair-chase deer hunting, not tree stands; walk-up bird hunting, not planted birds you have to kick up, so my time hunting hasn't been as often as I was used to.

You might find joining a local hunt club something to do as far as learning and having access to hunt.
If you shoot shotguns at clays, joining a local club is a great way to meet/make friends and get insight and help (they also might have some hunters to help with the former idea).

Good luck

 

[SuperNaut]

I'm not sure how to say this without coming across as insular and stand-offish myself. So I'm just going to say it and let the chips fall where they may.

I've never considered shooting to be a social endeavor, for me it is a solitary hobby. It has only been since I registered at THR that I have even put "social" and "shooting" together in the same sentence. I've met some great folks from THR and had a lot of fun with this new (for me) social aspect of shooting, but I much prefer shooting by myself. Even at the last THR get together in Provo, I went off by myself and had a great time.

So at the risk of sounding like a jerk; it is nice to know that a social network of ~like-minded individuals exists, but that aspect is just a recent, vaguely interesting, marginally useful, development for me.

Sorry?

 

[TexasRifleman]

I will admit to being insular.

I look down the firing line and all there is is automatics. I look back down at my revolver, shake my head, and go back to shooting.

At one time I was one of the guys with nothing but automatics until a very nice guy at the range walked up and asked me why that was all I shot. I had simply never had the chance to shoot a revolver before.

He was nice enough to let me try a few of his and a week later I bought my first one.

I'm glad he didn't judge me simply because I didn't know enough to know I was missing out.

 

[Geno]

One can't assume all ranges are insular. It seems to me that it is more of a local, cultural matter, and thus varies from range-to-range. I imagine that some ranges are, and they have the right to be, for whatever rationale they choose. I can enjoy shooting alone, in pairs, or with a whole group. A little friendly competition is always fun too.

For my part, I only care that folks are safe, responsible and respectful. I won't go off here about some of the dangerous things I have seen at the range, but it goes up to and including seeing a fella shoot literally half of his hand off about 4 feet to my left. That could have been my head, or someone else's head.

To that end, we should safeguard our lives by monitoring our conduct and others' conduct. Trust, with a gun, must be earned. Just because someone owns a gun, doesn't mean that they know how to use it. When you commence to using it in my presence, I have a right to be insular. I'll offer to teach someone, but if s/he gets all insular, they're out.

Geno

 

[Walkalong]

I look down the firing line and all there is is automatics.

You can tell the ones who only have autos when you let loose with a .44 Mag. If they turn around with the WTH look with their jaws open, all they ever shoot or see is autos.

Insular......hmmmm

Kind of a loner some days, and real friendly other days. Just depends.

Most gun folks are real inclusive if you don't act like a fool who might shoot them between the eyes.

No tolerance for carelessness by most gun owners. Wouldn't call that insular.

 

[Spencer_OKC]

Personally, I find those involved in the shooting sports to be friendly and open, but I can also understand how someone entering our environment for the first time might be a little intimidated.

That said, I think if you walked into any specialty shop or event you would feel much the same way.