Why isn't the 7mm-08 more popular?

[Newtosavage]

Just ran the numbers on the 140 Accubond, and at 2900 MV, they are 2000 fps. + to 500 yards. That may be the way to go. I just have this notion that 160 Accubonds are what I want to send downrange when there is an elk at the receiving end.

 

[Gtscotty]

I've killed two cows the past two years with 140gr Accubonds, last year's was .277", this year's was .264". Both worked fine, I'd have to bet that a .284" would also work. I kind of like the idea of a 160gr .284" as well, since it has an SD similar to the 140gr .264", and should give equally excellent penetration, given the same construction. I would like a bit more velocity than the 7mm-08 will give with the 160gr, so when I chop it to 19"-20" and slap a can on the end, I will still have, say 2,700 - 2,750 fps. I'm thinking a .280 or .280ai might be the ticket for that. I do think that if I was after bulls instead of cows, I'd definitely prefer to have the 160gr loaded up over the 140gr.

 

[Newtosavage]

I just sold a Tikka T3x Lite in '06 because the recoil made it no fun to shoot at all. I could shoot it, and shoot it well. I just didn't look forward to it. I suspect the .280 AI would be in the same ballpark. I used to own an 8 lb. Ruger 77 in .280, and with 160 Accubonds, that was the upper limit of my "fun" recoil tolerance. I enjoyed shooting that rifle.

For me personally, a hot load with 160 Accubonds in the 7mm-08 is very tolerable. To the point I don't even think about it. I just shoot. And that's a very good thing.

 

[Llama Bob]

Just ran the numbers on the 140 Accubond, and at 2900 MV, they are 2000 fps. + to 500 yards. That may be the way to go. I just have this notion that 160 Accubonds are what I want to send downrange when there is an elk at the receiving end.

I agree with your thinking there. The 160 is desirable for sectional density reasons, not ballistics reasons. Its BC really isn't as high as it should be for the weight, probably to maintain stability in 1:9.5" twist barrels. I'd still give it a go with 4895 or maybe try CFE223. You should be able to hit 2700 out of a 24" easily which will also get you 2000 ft/s at 500y at elk elevations.

 

[horsey300]

I just sold a Tikka T3x Lite in '06 because the recoil made it no fun to shoot at all. I could shoot it, and shoot it well. I just didn't look forward to it. I suspect the .280 AI would be in the same ballpark. I used to own an 8 lb. Ruger 77 in .280, and with 160 Accubonds, that was the upper limit of my "fun" recoil tolerance. I enjoyed shooting that rifle.

For me personally, a hot load with 160 Accubonds in the 7mm-08 is very tolerable. To the point I don't even think about it. I just shoot. And that's a very good thing.

I agree with your thinking there. The 160 is desirable for sectional density reasons, not ballistics reasons. Its BC really isn't as high as it should be for the weight, probably to maintain stability in 1:9.5" twist barrels. I'd still give it a go with 4895 or maybe try CFE223. You should be able to hit 2700 out of a 24" easily which will also get you 2000 ft/s at 500y at elk elevations.

I might interject the 150 ablr over a stout load of I4895 or I4831 could provide a solution.....

 

[rquack]

To the original question, " Why isn't the 7mm-08 round more popular?" I don't know, but I've read many plausible explanations from marketing to performance versus other calibers.

I can only relate my experience with the cartridge. I bought one of the earliest Rem Models 7's produced and chambered for 7mm-08. It shot terribly out of the box. My gunsmith worked on it and after bedding the barrel, re-machining the bolt jugs to lock up squarely, he gave me a solid 1" gun using the 139 grain factory ammo. [It was interesting to read the post about the poor quality factory ammo a few above this writing; that would have explained a few things, back then.]

After shooting all of my factory stuff up I began to reload for this rifle and was disappointed by the fact that recoil became uncomfortable when I started to approach the upper end of the speed chart for the 139 grain bullet. Again, my gunsmith to the rescue: he tossed me a box of 120 grain Nosler ballistic tip bullets. I've never looked back since that day.

Shooting at near maximum "book" velocity, the recoil is hardly noticeable. In fact, I watch deer tip over through the scope. There is no notable muzzle rise at the shot. I'm using 42 grains of IMR 4064, a CCI benchrest primer, and the 120 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet. I can shoot less than 1/2" groups with this light barreled rifle. My son-in-law has me load it for his Tikka and he shoots cloverleafs. I love the load because I'm a recoil wimp. And I've NEVER [since I began loading these bullets in about 1986 or so] had a deer go more than 15 yards, most just drop at the shot. I guess as a negative, my tracking skills no longer get challenged; but this is a problem I've learned to live with.

I've introduced several young shooters to rifle shooting over the years. One day in particular, I took a young fellow, his dad, and grandpa to the range to help him select the new rifle that his grandad was going to get him for his birthday. He shot my .300 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag, .270 Win, .35 Rem, 7mm-08 Rem, and his dad's .30-06. After a discussion about recoil, reloading, bullet selection, performance on game, he selected the 7mm-08. Even his dad agreed that it was a very versatile caliber, especially if loaded in a full size rifle [not my Model 7 'pop gun']. My favorite load shot cloverleafs out of his southpaw Savage; and it earned him numerous accolades from his friends when he took his rifle out with them to shoot coyotes.

I've thinned the vault over the succeeding years but the Model 7, 7mm-08 remains. I'll someday re-barrel it before I eventually pass it on to one of my grandkids. And after years of pondering a change, I'll probably stay with the same light thin tube that makes the gun such a gem to carry in the woods, but maybe add an inch or two in length to burn some extra powder.

Of all of the calibers that I have shot over nearly forty years of hunting and target shooting and all of the rifles that I've owned, this little 7mm-08 Model 7 is my favorite by a long shot [pardon the pun]. So much a favorite that I currently hold an inventory of nearly 2000 of those little 120 grain Nosler BTip bullets that I love to shoot; just to make sure that I'll never run out.

 

[Newtosavage]

I might interject the 150 ablr over a stout load of I4895 or I4831 could provide a solution.....

Considered that, and for deer that sounds like just the ticket. However nothing I've read about the ABLR's gives me confidence in their performance on elk, which would be the whole reason for anything more than my 139 SST's.

 

[Newtosavage]

rquack, I'm sorry I got to the party so late in life, but I'm glad I finally did. I took a deer a few days ago at 200 yards with a 120-grain Sierra Pro Hunter over a very mild load of H4895 (2700 fps). Performance was excellent. I haven't tried the 120 BT's but I will eventually. I remember them shooting lights-out in the 7x57 I used to own.

I can relate, and completely agree on the merits of a light, short, quick-handling deer gun. I grew up carrying a Winchester 94 30-30, and that's what I expect and demand from a deer rifle. Within just a few days, I've developed a bond with my new-to-me Tikka T3 7mm-08 and already have a lot of confidence in that lightweight rifle. Likewise, my son fell in love with my Stevens 7mm-08 (which also checks in at just 6 lbs. 14 oz. scoped) for the same reasons.

 

[horsey300]

rquack, I'm sorry I got to the party so late in life, but I'm glad I finally did. I took a deer a few days ago at 200 yards with a 120-grain Sierra Pro Hunter over a very mild load of H4895 (2700 fps). Performance was excellent. I haven't tried the 120 BT's but I will eventually. I remember them shooting lights-out in the 7x57 I used to own.

I can relate, and completely agree on the merits of a light, short, quick-handling deer gun. I grew up carrying a Winchester 94 30-30, and that's what I expect and demand from a deer rifle. Within just a few days, I've developed a bond with my new-to-me Tikka T3 7mm-08 and already have a lot of confidence in that lightweight rifle. Likewise, my son fell in love with my Stevens 7mm-08 (which also checks in at just 6 lbs. 14 oz. scoped) for the same reasons.

Ahhhh, I'd only heard great things about the penetration and expansion of the ablr, so to my thinking, it was dual purpose for deer and elk at 2700 fps lol, sans bonding or monometal, I wouldn't want less weight either and if the ablr bonding is less than that of the ab, then no gain, and obviously monometals at extended ranges are.......ummmmmm.....lackluster in performance?

 

[Newtosavage]

horsey, I know a ton of folks are high on the mono's (TSX in particular) and someday I may see what they see in them. But for now, the numbers just aren't in their favor when you are looking at a 400-yard shot. BC's are relatively low and velocities even lower. For sure, that 150 ABLR is very appealing. Puts me at 2000 fps and 1500 ft lbs all the way out to 500 yards, which is 100 yards further than anything else.

 

[LoonWulf]

Just wanted to interject that a buddy used a 150 .277 ablr at 2850ish to kill two good size cows, probably 600-700lbs with one shot each at under 50yds. Another dropped a huge bull (judging by the head) with .277 150 corelockt round nose. Id be comfortable using most 150 .284 bullets on something the size of an elk as long as shot placement was correct.

As a note, i took a couple bulls with my 7STW and 175Sgks at 2900. No thru penetration, but the bullets were under the hide on the far side. Again id be comfortable shooting those or the 160s at 2550-2650 for something like elk.

The 7-08 should be able to generate that without a whole lot of work. It always mildly surprised me i didnt see more people shooting the 7-08 out here, its literally the perfect caliber for our hunting.

 

[horsey300]

horsey, I know a ton of folks are high on the mono's (TSX in particular) and someday I may see what they see in them. But for now, the numbers just aren't in their favor when you are looking at a 400-yard shot. BC's are relatively low and velocities even lower. For sure, that 150 ABLR is very appealing. Puts me at 2000 fps and 1500 ft lbs all the way out to 500 yards, which is 100 yards further than anything else.

For me the monos are the etip, its wide cavity is nice, but still, unless on varmints, I keep the velocity at impact above 2100 fps, however, if I'm using monos, then I throw SD out the window as well lol. So we're definitely agreed there. With the ablr in other chamberings I know their bonding scores the toughness and expansion needed for big take downs even at distance, but if you've had other experiences with the 7mm offering, then that's fair.

Just wanted to interject that a buddy used a 150 .277 ablr at 2850ish to kill two good size cows, probably 600-700lbs with one shot each at under 50yds. Another dropped a huge bull (judging by the head) with .277 150 corelockt round nose. Id be comfortable using most 150 .284 bullets on something the size of an elk as long as shot placement was correct.

As a note, i took a couple bulls with my 7STW and 175Sgks at 2900. No thru penetration, but the bullets were under the hide on the far side. Again id be comfortable shooting those or the 160s at 2550-2650 for something like elk.

The 7-08 should be able to generate that without a whole lot of work. It always mildly surprised me i didnt see more people shooting the 7-08 out here, its literally the perfect caliber for our hunting.

See, for someplace like you describe, I can't think of ANYTHING I wouldn't use a 150 ablr @2700 for, long range goats to short range cows, and deer wherever I found them. Women and kids could wait their turn to shoot MY gun.....but then too so many options lol.

 

[horsey300]

On the note of the op, my oldest can handle the .243, likes to varmint hunt, and wants to hunt all the big game I do, the 2ND one just wants to varmint hunt........and maybe someday take a moose (10&8 going on 19&5) , the 95 gr .264 is decent on varmints and as previously discussed and proven the heavyweight .264s will do for heavy game, so for our house I'm looking at a .260 with 100 gr bullets for deer, 95 gr bullets for yotes, and 140s for large game down the road, and a .22-250 for the boy, and loaning him a larger bore for his moose when we go to Alaska lol. I love the 7-08 but this alone is an example of the reason it's less in than it should be.

 

[Newtosavage]

You guys are talking me into trying the 150 ABLR's. The LGS has had a box of 100 on their shelf for a year now. Not many 7mm fans 'round here either I suppose.

Horsey, you are blessed to have two sons who want to hunt with you! I raised my son bowhunting (he shot his first deer with a bow at 12, all by himself), then introduced him to muzzleloader hunting (to which he exclaimed "that was easy!" LOL) and now after his time in the Air Force, has taken more of an interest in firearms. My .40 cal S&W and now the Stevens 7mm-08 are his favorites. But I doubt he would have liked that '08 much when he was 10! Although my 120-grain sierra pro hunter load kicks about like a 100 grain .243.

 

[horsey300]

You guys are talking me into trying the 150 ABLR's. The LGS has had a box of 100 on their shelf for a year now. Not many 7mm fans 'round here either I suppose.

Horsey, you are blessed to have two sons who want to hunt with you! I raised my son bowhunting (he shot his first deer with a bow at 12, all by himself), then introduced him to muzzleloader hunting (to which he exclaimed "that was easy!" LOL) and now after his time in the Air Force, has taken more of an interest in firearms. My .40 cal S&W and now the Stevens 7mm-08 are his favorites. But I doubt he would have liked that '08 much when he was 10! Although my 120-grain sierra pro hunter load kicks about like a 100 grain .243.

Lol, I don't really know if the second son wants to hunt he's only a few months old, to clarify, my oldest is a daughter, and her oldest little brother is the varmint nut, their little sister (6) just likes targets right now lol, so yes I am blessed indeed, 4 lil shooters and/or hunters and outdoors enthusiasts to teach is wonderful. Plus side, more firearms purchases to be made and components to be bought and tested .

 

[Newtosavage]

Even better. Daughters that hunt are so much fun.

I have a feeling you will find yourself putting a 7mm-08 in their hands when they are ready for their first "forever" hunting rifle.

 

[horsey300]

Even better. Daughters that hunt are so much fun.

I have a feeling you will find yourself putting a 7mm-08 in their hands when they are ready for their first "forever" hunting rifle.

Hahaha, well the 7-08 is on the list for down the line, I plan on being able to have several chamberings in each class available specifically for kids/friends/family to try out to help with such decisions, there's still a couple more 6.5 itches to scratch first but they're NOT spelled creed. If I didn't already have a 7mm with the stw tagalong, the 7-08 would take more priority, but dad's stw was here first, and as a handloader, there's NOTHING I can't put down at longer than normal practical ranges, and as for shooting for fun, while it IS more than the kids want to try at the moment, the recoil is only brutish if I'm asking for it .

 

[Newtosavage]

I've been toying with the idea of having my '08 Tikka chamber reamed to .284. A local smith can do it for $250 and has done it before. As you say, if you have the "bigger option" you can always load it down.

 

[horsey300]

I've been toying with the idea of having my '08 Tikka chamber reamed to .284. A local smith can do it for $250 and has done it before. As you say, if you have the "bigger option" you can always load it down.

With the tikka being a long action, either the .284 win or the .280 would work, but I too favor the win, she does just a touch more in the arena with less powder, that too is a great cartridge that should be getting much more love than it does! And the extra 150 fps (rough average) gain would get you the performance you're looking for but without HAVING to spend the money on the ablrs unless you just want to, and if so still shows the gains downrange for you. I'm a closet .284 fan, I just haven't been able to sufficiently justify it yet. I feel that the gun budget that's been approved thus far is fair enough to not push my limits for a bit. (And she's just savvy enough to know that my .270wsm acquisition means I don't NEED a .284 lol)

 

[Newtosavage]

LOL. My wife asked me the other day, after coming home from Cabelas with that sweet Tikka 7mm-08, the question none of us want to hear...

"So, just how many guns DO you own now?"

I was quick and cool and didn't give away my panic. I told her "I only buy one if I sell one dear. You know that." (whew!)

 

[LoonWulf]

I was quick and cool and didn't give away my panic. I told her "I only buy one if I sell one dear. You know that." (whew!)

I tried that one a few times, my wife dosent believe i have that kind of self control...probably because i used to display all the paintball guns i had.

With the tikka being a long action, either the .284 win or the .280 would work, but I too favor the win, she does just a touch more in the arena with less powder, that too is a great cartridge that should be getting much more love than it does! And the extra 150 fps (rough average) gain would get you the performance you're looking for but without HAVING to spend the money on the ablrs unless you just want to, and if so still shows the gains downrange for you. I'm a closet .284 fan, I just haven't been able to sufficiently justify it yet. I feel that the gun budget that's been approved thus far is fair enough to not push my limits for a bit. (And she's just savvy enough to know that my .270wsm acquisition means I don't NEED a .284 lol)

Damn enabler! Now im wanting one too....maybe when my 6-284s shot out.

 

[horsey300]

LOL. My wife asked me the other day, after coming home from Cabelas with that sweet Tikka 7mm-08, the question none of us want to hear...

"So, just how many guns DO you own now?"

I was quick and cool and didn't give away my panic. I told her "I only buy one if I sell one dear. You know that." (whew!)

Lol she knows how many I have, the question is usually more along the lines of how many MORE do you need? Or how long until you find ANOTHER one you HAVE to have? The custom action build approval floored me, but per my own prioritizing, it's probably another year or two from being completely finished. Blackhawk completed my handgun lineup for now, but still gotta get a single seven.....for her....the rifles are my true addiction and thanks to savage and handloading, it's very easy to succumb. Just talked her into a model 11gv for a steal. I don't know what I'll do with the stock, it's not common enough for me to part with but I want the at-1 to play with..... her brother is regretting his .308 purchase so we're gonna start him with rebarrelling his savage to .243, and then if he takes to that, it might be the opportune moment to test the waters with a 7-08 barrel in a faster twist lol.

I tried that one a few times, my wife dosent believe i have that kind of self control...probably because i used to display all the paintball guns i had.


Damn enabler! Now im wanting one too....maybe when my 6-284s shot out.

Lol @when your 6 is shot out. If you can eat a LOT of goat, you could have that .284 in a year.

 

[Newtosavage]

I've yet to crack a barrel nut on either of my Savages, but my 7.62x39 is just begging to become a switch barrel.

 

[horsey300]

Honestly, if the .260 7-08 and .284 were REINTRODUCED with the appropriate specifications to the rifle, and modern bullet designs, a decent marketing campaign would really be the only thing needed as the trend for high performance low recoil chamberings is growing more and more.

 

[Newtosavage]

I agree completely. All three are fantastic hunting calibers.