Why isn't the 7mm-08 more popular?

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54Hawkin said:
We also know remington is horrible about promoting cartridges. Look at the 30 RAR, 6.5 rem mag, 350 rem mag all cartridges that had promise. Look at the 6mm remington, ballisticly superior to the 243, but winchester kills them in marketing and pricing.
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Yea, but they are "big green" and their products sell themselves. LOL A couple generations of Americans have been convinced that Remington is the best. I grew up with Winchester rifles and never bought into that. But I do like me some green box ammo from time to time. Esp. when it's on clearance. :D
 
Newtosavage said:
Easy answer for me. Less recoil than .308 and better ballistics for the most commonly hunted species in North America.
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If that is true, and if you apply the same logic, then wouldn't the .260 Remington be an even better choice than the 7mm/08?
 
Love the 7mm08 I have 2 rifles & 2 t/c pistols in that caliber.
Reloading it is so easy & never get misleading results like big shoulder rounds.
Brag on the T/C 15" barrel , I can hit a 3" metal plate every shot here out my back window
at 280 yards when I have it sighted in & no wind.
My wife has the T/C Encore in 7mm08 & loves it & shoots golf balls at 60 yards.
Hornady stopped making the 120 grain hollow point for it & that was a real deer load.
To much today to do with AR platforms & long range magnums, all about moving new
products like 6.5 C // 300 B O // & 50 caliber revolvers.
7mm08 hang in there.
 
I’ve owned one since 1999. It’s at the top of the heap in my arsenal of bolt guns. With some very venerable chamberings playing second fiddle, including 7 mm rem mag, 270 win, 25/06 and .243 to name a few. Probably not as popular for most of the reasons already listed, but definitely a very capable deer cartridge.
 
someguy2800 said:
You also can't stuff a 200 grain in a 7-08 for a loaner (your game here) gun
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True. It's a niche. IMO, it's the best deer-sized caliber ever designed, much like the 7x57 before it. Is there anything better than a 140-grain 7mm bullet at 2800 fps for deer?

It's also the perfect bridge between small and large game. Any smaller and you essentially give up elk-sized game, and any larger and you essentially give up varmints and smaller game. What other caliber handles 100-175 grain bullets so well?
 
someguy2800 said:
You also can't stuff a 200 grain in a 7-08 for a loaner (your game here) gun
Click to expand...

200 is too much. Even 180gr is pushing it and some bullets need a 1:8 twist. Depending on the bullet they might also need a longer than average magazine
like AI/AW system.
The 180gr can be loaded at comparable speeds than the tipical 175gr 308 but might also need extra freefore. My latest chamber can actually take the 180gr ELDX
from hornady and Berger VLD but I have not gotten to do any new serious load development with them yet specially because the 162gr and 168gr do so well.
With 1400 yards of supersonic range is plenty for whatever one needs including long range hunting improving ballistics and terminal performance vs all other
popular 6mm, 6.5mm and 308 itself. Of course up to a reasonable range that is why the 7mm and 30 cal magnums are out there.

In the long range hunting and sh forums there are guys shooting 180s and 195's with long free-bore and even the inexpensive Savage axis can be retrofitted and
upgraded to shoot some amazing loads because of the nice magazine coal. It is actually a pretty strong action but one has to re-barrel and also find a chasis
for it. The action is also cut shorter to put a regular recoil lug and also everything is bedded. otherwise factory barrels are great. The savage precission carbine
and predator (not the xp) will take the axis semi bull barrels that shoot like match barrels from those amazing actions and on a budget. I hope bergara releases
a B14 and tikka a T3 PRS in 7mm-08. I think those should sell well among folks who understand ballistics and want to have an edge w/o going crazy on budget.

This is how the 195gr VLD looks like loaded for extreme long range.

7mm-08_195gr_Berger2.jpg
 
1stmarine said:
I hope bergara releases
a B14 and tikka a T3 PRS in 7mm-08. I think those should sell well among folks who understand ballistics and want to have an edge w/o going crazy on budget.
Click to expand...

The folks who understand ballistics and want to have an edge aren't moving up to 7mm-08 for their PRS rigs, they seem to be headed quite the opposite direction in fact. I would like to get a lightweight 7mm-08 hunting rig sometime, but with a 6.5 and a .30-06 as my main hunting rifles, I'm really reaching for a "need" for a 7mm. There's a guy at work who has killed 5 or 6 bulls with his 7mm-08, and is satisfied with it, I'm sure he could have done just as well with a truckload of other chamberings, but you kill them with what you're carrying.
 
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I agree, 7mm with hunting in mind but also other tactical engagements that can be challenging for smaller bores in offspring cartridges.
Of course trends and fashions attract people but...

upload_2017-12-26_23-9-42.png
 
1stmarine said:
I agree, 7mm with hunting in mind but also other tactical engagements that can be challenging for smaller bores in offspring cartridges.
Of course trends and fashions attract people but...

View attachment 772541
Click to expand...

You lost me, I don't think that press PRS shooters are flocking to low recoil 6mm and to a lesser extent 6.5mm rounds because of "trends and fashions", do you? I'd agree that if you're some kind of secret squirrel counter sniper or police sharp shooter who happens to get to pick your own round, then the 7mm-08 with a custom throat and fast twist might be worth adding to the pile for consideration. I'm not sure many of us are in a situation like that...

Is there a 7mm-08 sniper rifle sneaking around somewhere in that Secret Service photo? :scrutiny:
 
In classic tactical & military ranges with heavy and rusty gates the 6mm and 6.5mm rounds fail to score extra points because the lack of momentum.
It has nothing to do with energy, it is momentum, two different things. This is a representation of what could be a real scenario life/death situation reflection on a tactical target.
Of course one can even adapt the matches to be more suitable to the rounds people like to shoot as well as the scoring criteria.
Elk at 800 yards like a threat at 1000 yards play by their own Natural and Environment rules and many folks want to have some momentum
and terminal effect if they can make contact. I like all the bores and their capacity to connect but we started talking about the 7mm-08 just because of that distinct capability
to get heavier and very effective bullets moving.
The SC post is a representation that there are many shooters that do not follow the cookie cut approach therefore obvious or fashionable choices are not always in their arsenal.
The military is divided on this too. Some we had to work with what we were given and while less can become more in terms of low recoil and cool ballistics
we have to also consider all other needs and possibilities. ...train like you are going to need it or as they also say ... train as you fight.
Plus the military, hunting clubs, states and countries are going lead free so the case for the 308 itself is even stronger.
Bottom line the 7mm is an amazing bore like the 30 and 338 bores if they do not become too much and they are a hand full specially the 338.
That is why I think the 7mm should not be overlooked for a great balance between amazing ballistics, reach, power and terminal effectiveness but w/o going nuts like
other oblivious choices involving magnums.
 
Newtosavage said:
Nope. Can't stuff a 160 or 175-grainer in a .260 if you need a loaner elk gun. ;)
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Ummmmmm actually in a 6.5 the 140 is the elk weight, BUT just for giggles, you CAN stuff a 160 gr in there, push it at almost 2600 fps, and it'll give you the SD .328 with the 140 bcs in the .5s and SD .287, the 7mm 160 is running the SD at .283, the 175 is at .310 and you can still get the 160 to 2600, but the 175 is looking at 2400. Terminally speaking, the numbers favor the 6.5, but then again, I spell my 7mm different than a lot of folks, mine has an S T and a W attached to it ;). The whole reason that the 6.5 has the low recoil attachment to it is because, you can take game with 100-120 gr bullets if we're talking deer and hogs, 130s cuz the .308 uses 165s sometimes? And elk or LARGER with 140-160 gr bullets, lighter weights equals lighter recoil to a point in the same cartridge class. Firing 140 gr bullets for a "light deer rifle" is akin to pushing the 160s for a 7-08 light deer rifle, yup, gonna kick a lil more. With either of these cartridges there SHOULD be less recoil than a .308 but if they ALL fire 140-160 gr bullets at similar velocities, they should all have similar recoil.
Running a 100 gr bullet in one is a deer bullet, the others are varmints. It's an efficiency game. The .243 with a 65 gr bullet is a varmint round, but a 64 gr bullet in a .22-250 is deer lethal. Gotta keep apples with apples and whatnot. I still have a soft spot for the 7mm chamberings, including the -08 but one cannot deny the beauty of the 6.5s............ and the first person that brings up kinetic energy better have footage of them firing a .275 rigby at an elephant's skull!
 
1stmarine said:
200 is too much. Even 180gr is pushing it and some bullets need a 1:8 twist. Depending on the bullet they might also need a longer than average magazine
like AI/AW system.
The 180gr can be loaded at comparable speeds than the tipical 175gr 308 but might also need extra freefore. My latest chamber can actually take the 180gr ELDX
from hornady and Berger VLD but I have not gotten to do any new serious load development with them yet specially because the 162gr and 168gr do so well.
With 1400 yards of supersonic range is plenty for whatever one needs including long range hunting improving ballistics and terminal performance vs all other
popular 6mm, 6.5mm and 308 itself. Of course up to a reasonable range that is why the 7mm and 30 cal magnums are out there.

In the long range hunting and sh forums there are guys shooting 180s and 195's with long free-bore and even the inexpensive Savage axis can be retrofitted and
upgraded to shoot some amazing loads because of the nice magazine coal. It is actually a pretty strong action but one has to re-barrel and also find a chasis
for it. The action is also cut shorter to put a regular recoil lug and also everything is bedded. otherwise factory barrels are great. The savage precission carbine
and predator (not the xp) will take the axis semi bull barrels that shoot like match barrels from those amazing actions and on a budget. I hope bergara releases
a B14 and tikka a T3 PRS in 7mm-08. I think those should sell well among folks who understand ballistics and want to have an edge w/o going crazy on budget.

This is how the 195gr VLD looks like loaded for extreme long range.

View attachment 772529
Click to expand...

You assume I'm talking about long VLD type bullets. I have no interest in any such thing in a hunting rifle. Where I live a 195 eld in a custom throated chassis rifle has no real world advantage over a 30-30 with a 4x scope. There is simply no oportunity to see much less shoot game at ranges longer than 200 yards or so. Obviously you seem to have a use for your rifles that would make my cartridge choices equally as out of place.

In any case my actual point is that there are so many calibers and cartridges and bullet choices out there that there is an infinite possibility of one upping or one undering of just a little bigger or a little smaller or a little faster or a little slower, so everyone is free to form there own opinion on which one of the several hundred calibers is the just right one for there use.
 
Yup. And for me at least, the 7mm-08 (and the 7x57 before it) is damn near perfect.

Horsey, I have a soft spot for the (now seemingly disappearing) 7's as well. Not ready to jump on the "6.5 CM is a capable elk gun" bandwagon just yet. Guess I'm from Missouri on that one.
 
Newtosavage said:
Yup. And for me at least, the 7mm-08 (and the 7x57 before it) is damn near perfect.

Horsey, I have a soft spot for the (now seemingly disappearing) 7's as well. Not ready to jump on the "6.5 CM is a capable elk gun" bandwagon just yet. Guess I'm from Missouri on that one.
Click to expand...
Lol I can't jump on the cm bandwagon at all right now, but the .260, 6.5 Swede, and .264 wm have done their part over the years to establish the 6.5's place in the hunting world. The cm has enough marketing to sell like hotcakes, and every now and then a person questions this or that, and if they're lucky, the folks behind the counter are knowledgeable enough to get them into the right fit, whether it's the 7-08 or the Swede, many nowadays are less lucky and continuously I meet some new guy that has just bought a 6.5 cm for long range precision, and I think of my ol .243 and smile and nod, and begin counting down til I can get back to my loading bench. ;)
 
Steve S. said:
.....because my rifle is a .308, all my factory ammo is .308 and my reloading components are for a .308. If I did not already have this stuff, it may be a 7-08; I just see no reason to trade good for good.
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This is the answer most give. Because the 308 was there first, it is preferred by the average hunting guy. You can go to Walmart, etc and get much more variety in 308 than 7-08. I have a 7 Rem mag, a 280, a 40X in 7 WSM, and a number of 308s. In the early 80s when silhouette was still hot, Savage made a 110S in both 7-08 and 308. The 7-08 performed great out to 500 meters. I would snap up a 7-08 110S in a heartbeat if I found one at even a semi-reasonable price but as a hunting rifle, it has no practical edge on what I have now. YMMV
 
horsey300 said:
Lol I can't jump on the cm bandwagon at all right now, but the .260, 6.5 Swede, and .264 wm have done their part over the years to establish the 6.5's place in the hunting world. The cm has enough marketing to sell like hotcakes, and every now and then a person questions this or that, and if they're lucky, the folks behind the counter are knowledgeable enough to get them into the right fit, whether it's the 7-08 or the Swede, many nowadays are less lucky and continuously I meet some new guy that has just bought a 6.5 cm for long range precision, and I think of my ol .243 and smile and nod, and begin counting down til I can get back to my loading bench. ;)
Click to expand...

I've owned two 6.5x55 Swede's, both original Mausers. One out of the box, never used, and the other sporterized (pretty well actually). They both shot fantastic and killed deer and pigs very well. I just don't consider the 6.5 something I'd take as a backup elk gun. I'm sure it would work, but I'd prefer the 7mm-08 or 7x57 with 160's. Just my personal preference. And for that reason alone, the 7mm-08 will be in my safe. I'm not a target shooter other than to test hunting loads. If I were, I am sure I'd own a .260 or 6.5 Swede. If there were no chance I'd ever take the rifle as a backup for elk, I'd probably use a 6.5 for deer. But I don't mind the recoil of the 7mm-08 or 7x57 at all, so that's what I use. Heavy bullets in a .308 or '06 start to get on my nerves after a few shots however. LOL
 
Like we discussed the 7mm-08 is a very popular white tail and hog hunter for the entire family but it is so much more if one needs it.

If one doesn't need heavier bullets then great. One can go lower and softer but also the 7mm-08 hits like a 270 with the typical 120gr to 140gr.
I think several brands offer reduced recoil loads that are very popular for white tail and for the entire family to use.
The heavier bullets are not only VLD for long range whether is target or hunting work, one also has 160gr-180gr partition, bonded, sp and other bullets.
Regarding the 160-180gr bullets is obviously optional but so folks understand that this option is also available not just for long range but also
to hunt larger game or harder to kill game with authority. Driving game like large bore are very hard to kill so that is why anything lower
than 7mm is not so effective ( with a few exceptions) in order to derail the running game and why having that type of versatility is a good thing.
Same might happen with the occasional moose or large bear or Elk hunter in the Northern woods.
And like I said one has to take that in consideration when buying the rifle and/or ordering a barrel to choose the right twist.

The most popular round in the world is the 308 (along with 30-06) and it will continue to be. If one has it and doesn't want to get into another bore like the 7mm
then there is no need with modern bullets and powders and many places and entire countries going lead free it makes even more sense to invest
in quality loads. Even for the occasional long range there is specialty ammo and bullets that can do a great job.
the 308 with 110-130gr solid bullets will shoot super flat and will do a number on white tail and pigs will shoot as flat as a 243 and hit like a 270.

Needless to say, the 7mm with 100-120gr bullets can be used as hyper-velocity varminter too that shoots super flat and with mild recoil, so you also have that.

So why the 7mm-08?... it can take the roles of popular 6mm, 6.5mm, 270 and 308 and do everything those do and more.

Perhaps not as popular as the 308 but also the generous 7mm bullet assortment should not be overlooked for anything one needs.

These type of cartridges gain popularity based on their own merits and not on massive internet/online marketing campaigns and dollars.
We know Remington sucks at marketing. Still the Remington 700 rifles are a benchmark for both accuracy and strength and that
is why they are the most popular action on the planet. ...along with savage 10, mauser and a few other military actions.

I don't have a huge number of loads in 7mm-08 but if anyone is interested I can share some data. Double tap has a load using the 160gr bonded
nosler so one can use those and try to replicate them for Elk. The 175partition should be a great bullet for elk and large mule deer too.
 
I see that Swift offers a 160gr Aframe bullet for 9.1/2 twist and for over $50 / box!!! ...practically free! :D
They are amazing bullets but they are a bit too much on price don't you think.
Anyway, another good reason to reload and get better performance for less money anyway.
 
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