Why isn't the 7mm-08 more popular?

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I'm a reloader and have worked up a load for my old 270 using 140gr. berger vld's at around 2900 fps. I know the .270 can do a bit better than that, but that is where I had great accuracy and not too much pressure.

I then began loading 7mm-08 for my son using 139gr. hornady sst's and found that it was best at 2950 fps, and it does this with nearly 15 grains less powder!

I couldn't believe that I was surpassing the .270 with same weight bullet and 15 gr. less powder.
My daughter now has a 7mm-08 as well and now I'm considering one for my self.
Short action, less recoil, same ballistics ... what's not to like about that?
 
magnatecman said:
I'm a reloader and have worked up a load for my old 270 using 140gr. berger vld's at around 2900 fps. I know the .270 can do a bit better than that, but that is where I had great accuracy and not too much pressure.

I then began loading 7mm-08 for my son using 139gr. hornady sst's and found that it was best at 2950 fps, and it does this with nearly 15 grains less powder!

I couldn't believe that I was surpassing the .270 with same weight bullet and 15 gr. less powder.
My daughter now has a 7mm-08 as well and now I'm considering one for my self.
Short action, less recoil, same ballistics ... what's not to like about that?
Click to expand...

It still all comes down to cartridge capacity. The 270 will outperform the 7mm-08 in terms of muzzle velocity. Probably a better analogy would be the 280 and 7-08, as they're both using .284/7mm projectiles.

I have to use compressed loads in my 308 just to get it close to my 30-06, again in terms of MV (and I can still easily turn around and load my 30-06 hotter and win that battle). Point being, all cartridges are unique and special in different ways. Trying to make examples with less powder capacity match those with larger capacity always seems to be counter-intuitive to me anyways. If I want to achieve 30-06 velocity, I use my 30-06... not my 308 trying to push the upper limits just because. Lots of other examples you can insert here...
 
magnatecman said:
I'm a reloader and have worked up a load for my old 270 using 140gr. berger vld's at around 2900 fps. I know the .270 can do a bit better than that, but that is where I had great accuracy and not too much pressure.

I then began loading 7mm-08 for my son using 139gr. hornady sst's and found that it was best at 2950 fps, and it does this with nearly 15 grains less powder!

I couldn't believe that I was surpassing the .270 with same weight bullet and 15 gr. less powder.
My daughter now has a 7mm-08 as well and now I'm considering one for my self.
Short action, less recoil, same ballistics ... what's not to like about that?
Click to expand...

So this is precisely what I'm talking about.

Yesterday, I came across a post while researching loads for the 7mm-08 where someone called it "a short action .270." That gave me pause as I never considered the .284" 7mm bullet is just .007" larger than the .277" bullet the .270 uses. Then I looked up ballistics tables and lo and behold they are right. The ballistics of the 7mm-08 are so close to the .270 that it's effectively a wash. So yea, a short-action .270, and with the history of the venerable .270, who would not want one in a lighter weight short action that uses less powder and has less recoil? I'm all in!
 
horsey300 said:
Honestly and realistically, it's because it has more than the metric measurement and parent case in common with the .260, REMINGTON, you want to kill a cartridge, stamp it REM and let them handle the marketing.
Click to expand...
Like the 222Remington, 222Rem Magnum, 223 Rem, 22250Rem. All very unpopular!
 
i loves my gun said:
Same reason the .284 win isn't popular. Reason being, nobody knows. :thumbup:
Click to expand...

I believe we know why.
It has been marketed as a white tail round.
In todays world the internet and marketing dollars are as important as a decent assortment of factory loads and rifles. The round is amazing but we know Winchester and Remington are not particularly good at Marketing nor they have a long term vision and plan that follows through.
Companies can sell garbage with good marketing, yet w/o marketing great products might seat on the shelves unnoticed by many.
The 7mm-08 might be one of the most balanced cartriges thanks to the amazing bullets. It does everything the 308, 6.5 and smaller calibers do and much more.
.....
 
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1stmarine said:
I believe we know why.
It has been marketed as a white tail round.
In todays world the internet and marketing dollars are as important as a decent assortment of factory loads and rifles. The round is amazing but we know Winchester and Remington are not particularly good at Marketing nor they have a long term vision and plan that follows through.
Companies can sell garbage with good marketing, yet w/o marketing great products might seat on the shelves unnoticed by many.
The 7mm-08 might be one of the most balanced cartriges thanks to the amazing bullets. It does everything the 308, 6.5 and smaller calibers do and much more.
.....
Click to expand...

Made two trips to the range today, testing loads for my "short action .270" LOL. ( I kinda like that nickname now )...

All I can say is, where has this caliber been all my life? I mean, I've been fully aware of the 7mm-08 since the early 90's, but for whatever reason, I've yet to own one. Balance is the perfect word to describe it. I sent a bunch of 120 and 139's downrange today, and oh what fun it was.

And you are spot-on about marketing. People are sheep.
 
With those loads it hits like a 270 but with a lot less powder.
It can also be loaded with 162, 168 and 175 bullets. Modern brass, powders and bullets allow you to create amazing long range rounds.
Easy to re-barrel for long range as any budget 243, 260, 308 action will make a great donor.
One can rebarrel at home with the remage nut for remington, savage (obviously), and ruger, winchester and tikka all can use the ruger barrel nut.
PTG has them as well as bottom metal for the AI/AW mags so putting together a PRS rifle is very simple and inexpensive.

Otherwise a budget rifle even the axis are very accurate. The only thing are the tuperware stocks that have to go at some point unless they
are for a beater hunting season gun. They can be stiffened a bit for folks on a budget.
Plenty of rifles where to choose from. I hope vergara adds the 7mm-08 to the B14 line.

Here some bullets/loads I am working on right now for long range. It is amazing how versatile this round is.
The middle one is an amazing elk load for long range with a proven track record in terms of consistency.
I also started to work with some 180gr but have no official spread data yet.

7mm-08_162amax_168_Berger_VLD_308_MAXCOALCOMPARE.jpg
 
I also made a AR barrel for hunting and all purpose rifle.
The berger works great in standard magazines even with the same free
bore are not as jump senstive as the 308.
I am using a Krieger 5R barrel with a 1:8 twist. Same design I used for a friend.

7mm-08_168gr_Berger3.jpg

This was first day. Not even a brake installed yet. testing 120gr loads for hunting.
7mm08_AR1.jpg

Here some recent data vs.data I had from 6.5 bullets shot with the 260 that I retired.
The 7mm gives me similar trajectories, a tad better in the wind and delivers some pretty nice momentum (power factor) that is where the 6.5 and 6mm struggle a bit at
long range. based on 10mph full value 90deg. wind direction.

7mmvs65.jpg
 
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Most impressive.

Unfortunately for me (although I'm not really that upset about it), my Stevens 200 7mm-08 is one of those with the notorious short throat and 11.5" twist. But hey, it absolutely loves the 139 SST's so I'm not complaining. I bought it for a dedicated deer rifle and that's perfect. The throat on my Stevens is so short that the longest I can seat a 120-grain Sierra is 2.72" ! Not even the 2.8" that the loading chart calls for. LOL However the SST's with their sleek tip will still leave me 0.090" off the lands at 2.8" But definitely no seating heavies long in that one. For it's intended purpose though, it's perfect, shooting 120 and 139/140 grainers into 3/4" groups all day without much workup. I even found a reduced load with the 120's and H4895 that shoots just like my 7.62x39 and cut a cloverleaf at 100. Love it when that happens. ;)

Maybe after the deer season has ended I'll pull that barrel and throw on a custom just for the range. See, now you got me thinking... LOL
 
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When you think about the 7mm-08, what's funny to me at least is how the .260 and .308 are both routinely used for long range work, and yet the one that lies right in between them is a gun for "women, kids and the recoil sensitive" in most people's minds. Just crazy when you think about it.
 
The sensible weight for 7mm08 is 140gr. The commonly used weight for .308 is 150gr. If you don't look into it further, there seems little difference to make the 7mm08 worthwhile. If you compare 140gr 7mm08 to 165gr .308, as is more sensible, then there's a difference to notice. Most never notice.

And, of course, people who do look into such things are distracted by the various 6.5mm cartridges having similar capacity. 120gr is where it's at for whitetails. :thumbup:
 
Geoffo said:
Like the 222Remington, 222Rem Magnum, 223 Rem, 22250Rem. All very unpopular!
Click to expand...
Just for the record, until it was replaced by the .223 the .222 was an extremely popular caliber and offered in a wide range of rifle in US and abroad. In fact it was one of the post WWII landmark cartridge developments and still considered a benchmark in rifle accuracy.
 
krimmie said:
For me, there’s just not enough advantages over my .308 at the ranges I hunt at, which are < 225 yards.
Click to expand...

I can understand that. For me, the .308 had more recoil than is necessary for either a lightweight deer rifle or even a range gun. Very tolerable, but still more than is necessary IMO. In a 8 or 9 lb. range gun, it's not bad at all though.

Also, the .308 is kinda boring. I mean, who doesn't have a .308 these days. I predict the 6.5 CM is on it's way to becoming the next .308. Before long, everyone will have one and the "cool" factor will have worn off. Maybe then people will realize what fits between it and the .308.

In the meantime, I'll just be plugging away with my "women and kids" gun. :D
 
My .02.When ammo for the 7mm/08 is priced comparable to the .243,.308,.270and30/06,more people will try it.The average guy who just wants a deer rifle and buys ammo at a box store can't see/justify paying 7.00 or more a box extra
.Hard to compete with the .270 that way.
 
expense of ammunition is a huge factor. Every time I see 7-08 in the stores its $30-35 per box. 6.5 creed runs as low as 16.99 per box. With the great press it gets (and rightfully so). Most Hunters and shooters arent handloaders, and if you can get accuracy at 500 plus yards with factory ammo that price its going to be popular.

We also know remington is horrible about promoting cartridges. Look at the 30 RAR, 6.5 rem mag, 350 rem mag all cartridges that had promise. Look at the 6mm remington, ballisticly superior to the 243, but winchester kills them in marketing and pricing.
 
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Reverse the question and ask why it happens to be as a popular as it is? Responses may be more revealing.
 
54Hawkin said:
expense of ammunition is a huge factor. Every time I see 7-08 in the stores its $30-35 per box. 6.5 creed runs as low as 16.99 per box. With the great press it gets (and rightfully so). Most Hunters and shooters arent handloaders, and if you can get accuracy at 500 plus yards with factory ammo that price its going to be popular.

We also know remington is horrible about promoting cartridges. Look at the 30 RAR, 6.5 rem mag, 350 rem mag all cartridges that had promise. Look at the 6mm remington, ballisticly superior to the 243, but winchester kills them in marketing and pricing.
Click to expand...

I am not sure where you live but here you find 7mm-08 from $14-$17 in many places. Some they even have rebates on hunting ammo.
like this...
From this at 14.99 ... http://www.surplusammo.com/products/7mm-08-rem-140-grain-psp-bt-prvi-partizan-20-rounds.html
To this for $17... https://grabagun.com/hornady-8057-american-whitetail-ammo.html

obviously this for average hunting but in line with the 6.5 CR and 260 rem....

https://www.outdoorlimited.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=h81489

One can find premium ELDX ammo between $24 and $28 dollars....
http://www.selwayarmory.com/hornady-precision-hunter-7mm-08-remington-150-gr-eld-x-box-of-20.html

That is about the same bulk park as 143gr ELDX ....
https://www.laxammo.com/hornady-6-5-creedmoor-143-gr-eld-x-20-rds-81499-detail

And then from there you have the high end ammo like solid copper and 150gr or 160gr swift, norma or nosler and also 168gr berger hunting VLD
if you can find locally that are above $40 and why more people end up reloading anyway.
One doesn't even have that option in smaller bores like 6mm or 6.5mm as they max out at lower grain for hunting with more reach and momentum.

upload_2017-12-25_20-28-18.png

But I think it covers well most of the basic needs for decent cost and then allows to do much more.
keep in mind the 7mm-08 hits like a 270 Winchester with comparable bullets.
Some makers reduce the loads because it is appealing to the users and there is really no need for
more. But the options are out there and they do not have to be expensive.
Of course there might be areas where they take advantage of demand and pricing but normally
it is pretty popular and pretty accessible.

I don't buy bulk because I reload but I see some bulk deals from online retailers from time to time.
I think many people do it for practice and average hunting and then they reload the brass.
But one can reload very easily with 308 cases including military equivalent so that is what makes
the round also so easy and attractive IMO.

I agree Remington sucks at marketing. That is no secret.

Merry Christmas everyone!
 
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