Those Lehigh bullets are expensive: for the .380, where this slug does seem to improve performance substantially over hollowpoints, the 'Extreme Penetrator' slugs are $30 for 50. Is there any reason why a good hardcast slug with flutes wouldn't perform as well?
Why no hardcast equivalent to Lehigh fluted bullets
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troy fairweather
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I like the idea with the cast of i had a mill I'd try to make some to try
How do Lehigh bullets perform better than FMJ? I'm not trying to dis them. I like lead-free bullets and I can see the point of forgoing expansion from a .380. I also understand the expense involved in CNC-machining each bullet. But what's the benefit for all that effort and expense?
tightgroup tiger
Member
After watching the videos that I have found and the videos that JeeperCreeper provided for my post on Lehigh Bullets. What my take was with the fluted bullets is that the hydrostatic damage the Lehigh fluted bullets displayed in gel is may times deeper, producing a larger, longer major wound channe than any other design of bullet that is on the market now.
That has to be proven in real life experience as of yet, but that is there claim.
The fact that they are all copper, so they are light and go very fast, and the fact that they tend to throw shock sideways from the flutes doing a lot more hydrostatic damage much deeper into the target body because the nose design doesn't deform on impact, they think they have something that is superior to what's on the market now.
That's what they claim and their gel tests show.
Hydrostatic shock damage does a lot of damage aside from what the sensible damage of the bullet does. That comes from the speed and the nose design.
But I understand that hydrostatic shock only occurs if the bullet is traveling faster than the speed of sound of the material you are shooting it into.
A body has a lot faster speed of sound than air has because of being denser so these bullets aren't going fast enough to make hydrostatic shock by their fps but the nose design is suppose to make up for the deficit of speed.
The gel test seem to show this but they are new and gel isn't a final word on anything except what the FBI penetration standard is quantified by.
But hell, what do I know, just my take on it.
I'm going to do some playing with them but I'm interested in longer distance accuracy than 7 yards. I just ordered some Underwood factory ammo, the Lehigh Penetrator and Defense because I want to see for myself for the accuracy.
I'm not buying ballistic gel and test them, it's to expensive for me. On paper anyways these bullets look to be a better or at least different design that may prove to be something better after they have been put through the riggers of real life experience.
But they may prove to be illegal also, the Extreme Penetrators went through some kind of bullet proof vest and still penetrated 16-18" in gell in one of the videos. Who knows.
That has to be proven in real life experience as of yet, but that is there claim.
The fact that they are all copper, so they are light and go very fast, and the fact that they tend to throw shock sideways from the flutes doing a lot more hydrostatic damage much deeper into the target body because the nose design doesn't deform on impact, they think they have something that is superior to what's on the market now.
That's what they claim and their gel tests show.
Hydrostatic shock damage does a lot of damage aside from what the sensible damage of the bullet does. That comes from the speed and the nose design.
But I understand that hydrostatic shock only occurs if the bullet is traveling faster than the speed of sound of the material you are shooting it into.
A body has a lot faster speed of sound than air has because of being denser so these bullets aren't going fast enough to make hydrostatic shock by their fps but the nose design is suppose to make up for the deficit of speed.
The gel test seem to show this but they are new and gel isn't a final word on anything except what the FBI penetration standard is quantified by.
But hell, what do I know, just my take on it.
I'm going to do some playing with them but I'm interested in longer distance accuracy than 7 yards. I just ordered some Underwood factory ammo, the Lehigh Penetrator and Defense because I want to see for myself for the accuracy.
I'm not buying ballistic gel and test them, it's to expensive for me. On paper anyways these bullets look to be a better or at least different design that may prove to be something better after they have been put through the riggers of real life experience.
But they may prove to be illegal also, the Extreme Penetrators went through some kind of bullet proof vest and still penetrated 16-18" in gell in one of the videos. Who knows.
tightgroup tiger
Member
I don't know if you could get the speed with hard cast lead bullets you get from solid copper due to the weight difference and that may be the difference of whether they perform the same.
I expect the nose design probably requires a very fast speed to make it perform to their claims of the hydrostatic damage their bullet are said to do and maybe you can't get that from something as heavy as lead.
I expect the nose design probably requires a very fast speed to make it perform to their claims of the hydrostatic damage their bullet are said to do and maybe you can't get that from something as heavy as lead.
At high enough speed it does, not so much at handgun velocities.
I am going to stick with proven JHP designs for handguns.
The LeHighs are cool, and you can push them real fast, but they won't replace the JHP for me.
I've been reading and watching videos. I am totally undecided on the effectiveness of these things. I think it comes down to the uncertainties that Tightgroup Tiger wrote about. The question of whether the temporary wound cavity is effective or not is an unanswered one for me. The evidence seems to suggest that it often isn't but that it could be. Perhaps with further development, temporary cavitation could become the primary means of handgun bullet effectiveness, but I'm skeptical it has been achieved with these CNC bullets. They do seem to offer penetration similar to ball ammo. I think we can accept that without faith in any magic. They could possibly be less likely to yaw or tumble, but I'm not totally convinced of this or of a tremendous value in that characteristic.
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tightgroup tiger
Member
I completely agree.
I think the design of the nose if you notice has a scallop cut out that runs the same direction as the rotation of a right hand twist barrel goes is what they think is accelerating the hydrostatic shock effect despite the lower speeds.
I think it's a matter of mechanical advantage over the fluid that is present in the tissue and the fast speed rotation of the very fast, light bullet that is adding to the advantage.
Hydrostatic shock from a normal bullet is typically caused by a straight push through of a bullet at a higher rate of speed than the speed of sound of the material it is shot through. Despite it's rotation, the rotation does nothing for the effect.
With the nose design of the Lehigh bullets and there fast rotation due to there higher speed the nose could be making up for the deficit of speed of the bullet.
Nothing has been proven in real life with them and until it is this is all marketing hype.
That's all I saying. Nothing else.
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