Why no high end double action revolvers?

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918v said:
Except that Korth will outlast any S&W 3x over.
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That would have to be proven to me, as the Korth i had in my hands, didn't show me anything.

Then back in the day one of the gun rags tested a Korth, and it jammed up durning fast DA shooting. They said the cylinder heated up and then bound up! I have NO use for an expensive safe queen!

My old Smiths will out last me, so lasting one life time is enough...

DM
 
Oh, and American revolvers never bind up ever, right? Maybe you'd prefer a Manhurin with its .020" of cylinder endshake.
 
918v, what are you seeing that's holding up better on the Korths? I've always been curious about them, so I want to understand what it is you've found that makes them so durable!

Me said:
Neat-o, sounds like someone has proof! Can you post what you've found testing them side-by-side for durability? What parts are wearing on the Smith that are holding up better on the Korth? What are you running against your Korth as an example of "any S&W" by the way -- which frame size, I mean? 'Cause that might be skewing your results.
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Little or no demand. Mind you, other than manufacturers custom shops and smithy's, it costs too much to build. Hand fitted parts is why. The highly skilled craft$men are there, but the time it takes makes the MBA's not want to build 'em as a production item.
 
Wouldn't seat cartridges after 60-70 rds? Wow... that is tight. Probably very accurate, but I couldn't use one for my purposes.

Hmmm... too bad.
 
You could have the chambers opened up a bit, but you'll run into that problem with Freedom Arms and the custom guys as well. Note the Buffalo Bore ammo split cases in the S&W.
 
Mind you, other than manufacturers custom shops and smithy's, it costs too much to build. Hand fitted parts is why. The highly skilled craft$men are there, but the time it takes makes the MBA's not want to build 'em as a production item.
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Skilled labor has turned into a bunch of prima donnas commanding prohibitive wages. People have turned away from firearms and congregated around pansy sports. They want guns, but on the same level as offbrand discount store crackers. There are very few people that appreciate the kind of quality offered by Korth and are willing to pay for it. The same goes for pre-war Colts and S&W and custom stuff.
 
You need to generate some serious interest in double action revolver competitions that will bring it back to the level that the defensive shooting games and cowboy action matches are at. Competition causes folks to pony up all sorts of money to support high end businesses, but right now it seems like there's only a couple of niches that really use DA revolvers.
 
When the Cowboy guys die off, we'll have '30s retro Mobster shoots. Maybe then somebody will resurrect the New Service.
 
The Registered Combat Magnum comes to mind
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How so?
The Registered Magnums were pre WWII. The Combat Magnum came out in the 1950s

Maybe you'd prefer a Manhurin with its .020" of cylinder endshake.
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Huh.
I bought one of those Vienna SWAT surplus superstrong Manhurins from AIM a few years ago and was astounded at the endshake. Fortunately, Ron Power shims fit and it is now OK. Action is as good as a pretty good factory S&W but not up to a good $200 action job from a 'Murrican gunsmith.
 
When the Cowboy guys die off, we'll have '30s retro Mobster shoots. Maybe then somebody will resurrect the New Service.

Too late, somebody posted awhile ago that there was such an outfit. :uhoh:

That said, I'm not sure the New Service was they're gun of choice... seems someone mentioned the name "Thompson." :eek:
 
I bought one of those Vienna SWAT surplus superstrong Manhurins from AIM a few years ago and was astounded at the endshake.
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I almost bought one with an extra 9mm cylinder. Not only was I shocked at the endshake, the fit of the sideplate to the frame made me wanna vomit. All the screw holes were dished, the edges of the sideplate were rounded off as iff they polished the frame and the sideplate separately, and there rere visible tool marks all over the gun. The cosmetics were horrible. I initially thought the gun was refinished, but the seller told me they are all like that. This sucks because they are said to be Dan Wesson/Freedom Arms accurate and extremely durable.
 
You can have the Tommy Gun. I'll take a Colt Shooting Master in .45 ACP, please. We can share ammo ;)
 
If the Korths were that good, I believe we would have seen them used in the action games when revolvers were king instead of the expensive PPC guns. That's just a SWAG.
 
A new low end Korth costs $11,500 right now. People are competing with $3000 revolvers on the top end. That is why you don't see any in competition here. They are used in competition in Europe.
 
There are very few people that appreciate the kind of quality offered by Korth and are willing to pay for it. The same goes for pre-war Colts and S&W and custom stuff.
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I appreciate a quality revolver, but I am not going to spring for a Korth.

First, I would rather keep my money in the States.

Second, I would rather have a high end gun that regular people were able to possess than a fancy overpriced gun that is made for the very few.
 
what McB said -
I'd agree that classic S&W revolvers are "high end"...
I got the impression the OP was also asking why there aren't more makers of good DA revolvers.

and there you have the answers

There are not more really fine wheelguns being made in quantity, because revolvers were so very very popular for so very long, hence lots of classy old Colts, S&Ws and Dan Wessons can still be found at a fraction of the price of a Korth

There are not more really fine wheelguns being made in quantity, because of the mega trend shift to autoloaders. Any random gun shop you walk into, it's a near certain bet that autos will outnumber revolvers on display by a huge margin.

There never was a mass market for 5 figure $$$$$ revolvers or pistolas or double rifles/shotguns, not then, not now. So if mega price is what you choose to define 'high end', you ought not expect a whole lot of selection; scarcity is more a factor than quality in driving extreme prices, no matter how good the quality might be. "Korth" would have to be stupid to do it at $1,000 per gun, even if (in silly scenario mode) they could do it.
How it works.
 
918v said:
A new low end Korth costs $11,500 right now. People are competing with $3000 revolvers on the top end. That is why you don't see any in competition here. They are used in competition in Europe.
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not meaning to be overtly contentious
(though mebbe just a teeny tad argumentative)

but do you reckon those Euro folks shoot 4X faster/tighter groups with those $12k Korths vs. them poor folks with them $3k guns ? ;)
 
A Korth cost back in the revolver PPC days was not $11,000. It was close enough in price to have been a viable choice for those with the cash to by it - still pricey. Point being, the performance of a Korth was not good enough for the money to run with the PPC guns being built. Its a safe queen, a yuppy gun. $11,000 for a Korth, if that's not prima donna what is? At least our craftman are turning out good machines at a marketable cost. That's fair.

Oldfool nailed it. The mass transition to autos has much to do with the tremendous reduction in high end revolvers. I don't know how many of you have really studied a revolver from a service standpoint, but there is alot going on. A frame machined with many narrow passages, deburring and polishing in those areas, lockwork involving at least two springs and detent/spring points. Typically two timing/lock up points fore five to six chambers, the chamber itself needing aligned. I think we get it. That is very labor intensive to do. Most shooters are not demanding 2" precision at 100 yards with a revolver. So the mass production goes to 'typical' handgun engagement distance guns.

Will the revolver ever die? I don't think so, but it is losing ground steadily to the auto. New designs supersceding older designs. That is what technology does.
 
I'm not sure where the .020 end-shake comes from. My two Manurhins pictured below, have .005 and .006 - and they were both well used before I bought them.

Manurhi.gif

Though the crazyness has subsided for a while, this time last year some of the Dan Wesson SuperMag revolvers were fetching over $3000 on the auction sites. Not really an indication of "high-end" but high interest.
 
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