Why shouldn't I buy a Kel-Tec P-11?

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BLU

BLU

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I'm interested in buying an inexpensive DAO 9mm pistol for 'night-time' house-hold emergency use. It would rarely be carried concealed, if ever, but instead occupy the dark confines of the bedroom safe. The inexpensive DAO P-11 seems to fit the bill as it's a "no-brainer" rack and shoot gun, (like the LCP it would replace).

Tell me why you believe I should NOT buy it. (Don't tell me what caliber you think I need, or offer an expensive alternative piece. I have plenty of different guns that could occupy the safe already!) Am I being rude? Don't mean to be. I just need 'focused' opinions on why I shouldn't buy the P-11.
 
I wouldn't buy one because the one I had, had a junk slide on it that I had to file burrs off of. Every 100rds or so, I needed to dress the area that contacted the hammer. The gun also shot 8" low at 20', wasn't me man handling the 20# trigger either, it was on a rest! I bought the cheesy sight kit to help out the poi error, but still...
 
This is what clenched it for me...

From http://www.keltecweapons.com/faq/

What is the expected life of a Kel-Tec firearm
All Kel-Tec firearms have an expected life of 6,000 rounds or more.
Click to expand...

I didn't think a 6,000 round (or maybe more?) service life was what I was looking for, so I passed on the P11. If all this pistol is going to do is sit in a metal box and wait for the unlikely to happen, it might just do the trick for you.

My mother used to have one and got rid of it because when she put 100-200 rounds through it, once in a blue moon, the trigger was a problem for her. Bad trigger meant less practice. I shot it when she first got in. The long trigger wasn't as much an issue for me as was the fact that it was SO narrow. Could have had better sights, but such is the nature of this particular beast. It also wanted to rust in the worst way, something made worse because we live in a humidor here and cleaning guns has never been her favorite thing.
 
There is nothing wrong with Keltec firearms. 6k rounds is a LOT through a double-action-only hammer-fired pistol.....I doubt you'll be spending hours at the range with it.

The trigger IS the safety on these thus the reason the trigger pull is so heavy. I installed trigger shoes on my P-11 and PF-9 and they are much more comfortable to shoot.

I prefer carrying the PF-9 though since it's much flatter....either will serve as reliable SD firearms....IMO of course.

I wouldn't count on racking and firing though....due to the size, they're a little more effort to rack.
 
A friend had two small framed Keltecs in 9mm and we broke them both just shooting them normally at the range. He also had a Keltec carbine. That one broke in half
 
6k rounds is a LOT through a double-action-only hammer-fired pistol.....I doubt you'll be spending hours at the range with it.
Click to expand...

For something you might be defending your life with, you should give it lots of practice time -- 50 rounds a week, 3 or 4 times a month will be about 6000 rounds in only about three years. Obviously you will have spent well more on ammo than you did on the gun at that point.

Kahr seem to have considered my broken frame rail not worthy of fixing unless I pay after about only 6000 rounds :(

Kel-Tec is innovative and has very good customer support, but the problem is I've needed to use it far too often. Its not available for defense if its off for repairs. I can live with this for range guns but not for something I'm planning to count on.

That is why I've dumped Kahr for S&W Shield I won't ever trust or count on a gun for SD that the maker won't stand behind.
 
WHY? Because a SCCY CPX 1 or 2:evil: is less expensive. DAO, 9mm, compact, oh a Life time warranty with the gun, not the owner.:D
 
I had a KT P-11. I didn't like it because it was just too thick, blocky & ugly for me. The trigger worked, but it was sloppy and meant for bad breath range shooting (IMO). It was always reliable though. I gave it to a LEO friend for use as a off-duty/back-up gun.

It isn't the kind of gun I would show to friends, nor have fun with at the range.
 
It wouldn't be my first choice. I'd rather something larger, like say a full size Sig P250. If you are set on DAO it is one of the best current production choices, especially on a budget. The P11 is a fairly small gun. If it's sitting in a bedside safe, never to be carried, I'll take a full size handgun anytime over a compact or subcompact option.

Then comes Kel-tec as a company. They really are a design firm that dabbles in manufacturing. They come up with a bunch of cool ideas, and then struggle on the manufacturing side. Most of the small Kel-tec pistols require a "fluff and buff" to fix the poor factory fit and finishing. A relatively large number require trips back to the factory for work. They are a cheap gun for a reason, they are built as cheap as possible. I'd rather spend a little more and gain a lot better track record with a different option. Or, spend the same money on an older S&W auto setup for DAO. Kel-tec really is one of the last companies I'd trust with my life. Plenty of them work, but enough have issues to throw up a red flag for myself.

I think at that price point, you see more than proportional gains for the increased money spent on something like a Sig P250.
 
I don't have a huge amount of experience with the P11 but I only have two reasons not to buy, and both are subjective.

A few months ago I was planning on going back to visit some folks in CA and realized my only remaining practical low capacity pistol was a 1911 that was worth more than I wanted to risk. I wanted something inexpensive, 10 round, and easily concealable for the Arizona part of my trip. I happened into a local gun store that had a hard chrome + gray plastic P11 for $230. Hard to beat that.

It has all the usual KT ugliness. Untrimmed mold lines, cheap plastic sights, etc. I just gave it a basic cleaning, lubricated it, and took it shooting. It worked flawlessly. Even harder to beat.

So, two reasons not to, both subjective:

1) The trigger pull is quite heavy. On mine it is smooth and actually fairly good, but it is heavy. You may not be willing to learn to deal with that, or it may be uncomfortable for you.

2) It is an anti-status symbol. There are quite a few people who think that guns are OK as long as poor people can't afford them. At $230 the P11 is priced alongside High Point, Davis, Loracin, and similar guns. There are people who care about such things, and they are active in bashing KT guns. Buying a KT means putting up with, "I guess it'ls ok as a throw-down," type comments.
 
Out of all the handguns I own, the only one that has EVER needed a trip back to the factory was a 29. Keltecs aren't pretty, they certainly aren't the best, but, mine at least, have always been reliable.

I have my own range and don't practice with my SD firearms that much. The only firearm I fire that much is my competition LB, and that one requires many replacement parts....I have a boot box full of recoil springs and at least a dozen barrels.

The SCCY is a good, less expensive alternative.
 
If you're not intending to carry it, don't mind the DAO trigger, and want a gun with a lifetime warranty, why not get the S&W SDVE 9mm? It has a higher capacity, fuller grip, and IMO will most likely outlast the Kel Tec 2x over. They also run at around $280 or so brand new so they're not far out of the price range.
 
Well, if yours is like mine:

1. Trigger is horrible.
2. Grip is fat.
3. Most importantly...it was unreliable.

My P-11 was my fourth (and last) Kel-Tec. Had troubles with every single one. Got to know Bill in Customer Support pretty well--seems like he was sending me parts for one or another once a month for a while there.

And I spent way too much time on KTRange learning how to F&B...not that it did much good. I got each one working "better", but never got any of them to where I'd consider carrying them.

Sold each with full disclosure and at a substantial loss. Well, almost. I actually gave one away. :rolleyes:

So, my reason why KT will never see another dime of my money: Because they are crap.
 
Small pistols are harder to shoot then full size pistols The smaller the grip the more you feel the kick . sights are not so good and a double action only trigger if I am remembering correctly you do not need the small light weight pistol for pocket carry .. this would in my opinion not be a good house gun not a good range gun .. you will do a lot better with a larger gun easy to aim and easy to shoot . Ruger P 90 might be to large but a lot better for your purpose.. Time to go shopping .... enjoy it .
 
Mine was reliable and reasonably accurate. The problem was that I could never get over the heavy trigger. Plus, the trigger was so thin that it was almost painful with any repeated shooting. I tried a trigger shoe and that only made things worse.
 
If you're just wanting a gun to keep in the safe, why not go Hipoint? They may not be the best when it comes to fit, finish, and ergonomics, but they are supposedly dead reliable and pretty darn accurate. Cheaper, too!
 
I own and shoot a P-11 regularly. It's my truck gun, and can share magazines with my two S&W wonder nines (6904 & 5946) and my Marlin Camp 9 9mm carbine. After I did the "fluff & buff" on it and since I keep it cleaned & lubed, it runs reliably. BUT...You might not want a P-11 if:
1. You don't like fiddling around with your gun(s). They are inexpensive because they need a little more polishing and breaking in than they get at the factory.
2. You don't like a relatively heavy, long trigger pull. It's about 9 or 10 pounds and - with no other safety - that is its safety feature. That's the result of a true DAO; the hammer is cocked and released with every trigger pull.
3. You want to impress others. Kel Tecs are tools for self defense. They aren't pretty, nor finely finished.

I enjoy shooting mine, and it's more accurate than I am out to about 30' (50' on a good day). A healthy recoil due to light weight. I've stippled the front strap & back strap for better grip. If I ever have to use it, may God help me to never have to, defensively it wouldn't break my heart for law enforcement to hold it for a long while.
 
Follow up. After re-reading the prior posts, can I make a couple of suggestions? If the grip size of the double stack P-11 works for you AND if a house gun, two used gun groups that would be better (and in the same price range if you are patient) are the:
1. Ruger P95 (polymer frame) or P89 (metal frame, higher $). Ruger builds tanks. (I had a P95 but I can't keep them all.)
2. S&W third generation wonder nines. Models include the full sized 5906, 5904, 5946, etc. smaller are the 69xx series. All are all metal (alloy frames) and built rugged for law enforcement daily use. These have double stack magazines with capacity from 10 on ban-year versions, 12 to 17 regular capacity, to extended mags up to 39 rounds. They are either DA/SA or -for a few models- DAO. Like I said earlier, I own two of these models; they are a pleasure to shoot.

Both these (almost all of the S&W's) have a safety/de-cocker so you need to practice with them to be proficient. The P-11 has the advantage there, once it's loaded you just point and pull the trigger.
 
wally said:
For something you might be defending your life with, you should give it lots of practice time -- 50 rounds a week, 3 or 4 times a month will be about 6000 rounds in only about three years. Obviously you will have spent well more on ammo than you did on the gun at that point.

Kahr seem to have considered my broken frame rail not worthy of fixing unless I pay after about only 6000 rounds :(

Kel-Tec is innovative and has very good customer support, but the problem is I've needed to use it far too often. Its not available for defense if its off for repairs. I can live with this for range guns but not for something I'm planning to count on.

That is why I've dumped Kahr for S&W Shield I won't ever trust or count on a gun for SD that the maker won't stand behind.
Click to expand...
You seem to use Kahr and Kel-Tec interchangeably. They are not the same.
 
I am convinced that Kel-Tecs are basically good guns, but that some folks -- through no fault of their own -- just can't shoot them or get them to function reliably. It's not their fault -- it how they and gun fit together. (That shouldn't be read to say I think that there aren't some Kel-Tecs with problems...)

I first noticed this when a friend, who is a savvy shooter and a 1911 collector (with a bunch of 1911s and Sigs tuned by top gunsmiths) came to the range one day raising hell about his P3AT. Said it was the biggest P.O.S. he had ever owned, and you couldn't hit the broad side of the barn with it. Said he had just sold it at a big loss.

I asked him to shoot mine, and he was right -- he couldn't hit the broad side of the bar with it. I then took it and shot a 3" group at about 20 feet. He was flabbergasted. He is a good shot, and can probably out-shoot me with other guns. He just couldn't shoot a P3AT.

I think some folks' hands just don't work ergonomically with a lot of the Kel-Tec products. I've had a couple of P-11, a P3AT (which definitely did NOT fit my hand --the trigger guard killed my trigger finger with each shot), a couple of Sub2000s (one in 9mm that I loved, and foolishly sold) and another in .40 which just wasn't pleasant to shoot. I frequently carry a PF9 -- but may retire it one of these days for a more-pleaseant-to-shoot Kahr CM9 I picked up in a trade.

(Re: the P3AT. It was accurate enough, and reliable, but the trigger guard did me in. The very similar Ruger LCP didn't cause that problem, as the trigger guard has a slightly different shape... but I found all of the little .380s too harsh to shoot much. The PF9 is more pleasant for me, and I try to shoot it every other range trip or so.)

I've never had any reliability or functional problems with any of these guns... but know that others do.

If the OP is serious about getting a P-11, he needs to hunt for one that he can actually shoot, and find out if he's one of those many who just don't find a Kel-Tec product working for them.
 
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I had one for a few years, carried it daily.

A caveat, I never fired it much. Why? Recoil is uncomfortable, and the loooong trigger reset prevented rapid follow up shots. Sear release was right at the full back position, against the frame. I short stroked the heck out of it.

KelTec had a real gem going until they put that terrible trigger on it. Big mistake. Even now it's hard to find a thin, compact double stack 9mm.

BTW it's fairly simple to reduce pull force. It involves a bent nail.
 
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You seem to use Kahr and Kel-Tec interchangeably. They are not the same.
Click to expand...

I know they are not, I was pointing out that Kahr also seems to behave like 6000 rounds is an acceptable service life for their C series pistols. At least Kel-Tec has always answered my Emails.
 
CC-hangfire... PistolPete45... and the rest... Good points. Particularly on the Ruger P-series. I carry a gun to bed. Something I can clear a house with! If it becomes necessary, (it has only once), my wife goes to the safe, draws the weapon and waits for my, (I hope!), return. Should I not return after gunshots.... she knows she needs to defend herself close range until the authorities appear. She qualifies every year on a P89DAO. She does it because she must, not because she enjoys shooting. She is not interested in learning or practicing anything else. So... for 'her' piece, I have little options. A long trigger pull is the norm for a P89, (pack a suitcase.... it's quite the trip!). 12-13 pound pull is also the norm. The LCP she IS familiar with because it operates just like the P89. My thinking was that the P-11 is nearly a LCP and it would make me feel better to have her using a 9x19 vs. a 9x17. I am a trained gunsmith. I live to tinker on firearms. A fluff and buff, for me, is fun. (Sick, huh?!:)) Maybe I should just leave the .357 LCR in the safe. She'd have a sweeter trigger pull and DAO. Decisions, decisions. I want her to have access to something she knows for when I travel and she can't, but a P89DAO is hard to find these days.
 
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