Why shouldn't I buy a Kel-Tec P-11?
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Jim NE
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You don't have 50 or 60 bucks more to spend on a Smith and Wesson SD9ve.
Not being smug. And the reason someone buys a SD9ve is because they don't have another 100 bucks to spend on a Ruger SR9. And so, and so on.
If 50 or 60 bucks is the difference between you owning a gun and not owning a gun, I'd definitely buy the Kel-Tec. And that scenario accurately describes a lot of people's financial situations, which is why I never say, "Oh man, why'd you buy THAT gun?"
The drawbacks to the P-11: I consider it a somewhat "incomplete" gun. That was my experience, anyway. I had to polish the ramp on my new P-11 to get it to cycle properly. I had to trim the flashing from some of the polymer parts because they didn't allow me to shoot the gun comfortably. I had to add a grip extension to the magazine to give me enough grip control to shoot the gun accurately (extended mags are better.) I had to use the trigger a few hundred times to make it bearable.
These are all things that coulda/shoulda been done at the factory. Yes, it would've made the gun cost another 30 bucks, but it would've saved it from having the somewhat tarnished reputation it now has.
The gun also can't really be dry fired much. Also, the P-11 might have a "life" of 6000 rounds, but some of the parts and springs might wear out before then.
Good things about the P-11: If you get extended 15 round mags for it, you'd be hard pressed to find any 9mm that size with that capacity, regardless of price. And once the trigger is broken in and the grip surface extended, it can be surprisingly accurate. I still have my P-11 because I don't hate it, but I'd have to say the only real reason to buy one is you can't afford something better. If you can afford an sr9c, go for it.
Walt Sherrill
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When they were first introduced, the small S&W 9mms, the early relative of the SD9ve, had a claimed service life of 3000 rounds or more. They certainly lasted longer than that. I don't know what S&W claims for those guns, now.
As others have noted, however, the Ruger SR9c is a good choice.
As others have noted, however, the Ruger SR9c is a good choice.
MICHAEL T
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I have 5 KelTecs in family wife and daughter's carry the 3 P-32 's. I have a P3AT and a PF-9 None have ever had a F&B or been any problem . I carry either the 380 or the PF-9 most days .
I also sometimes wonder .How much of the KelTec so called problems are really the owner . They dropped the 40cal P-11 because to many returns. Found nothing was wrong Except owner couldn't handle a lite weight small 40 cal. pistol.
Another good reliable 9mm is the Bersa9mmUC .
I also sometimes wonder .How much of the KelTec so called problems are really the owner . They dropped the 40cal P-11 because to many returns. Found nothing was wrong Except owner couldn't handle a lite weight small 40 cal. pistol.
Another good reliable 9mm is the Bersa9mmUC .
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BLU
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Yes... I have $50-$60 more. However, I was going to use that for a few extra mags. The beauty of the DAO's, to me, is their simplicity. No safety, No de-cocker, etc., rack and shoot. Remember, it's a bedside weapon only, not a range piece or a carry piece. A last resort for someone who is not a 'gun-nut' and rarely experiences adrenalin! I'm inhaling the free advice guys. If this P-11 gets shot more than a re-familiarization mag every now and then, I'd be surprised. She will never shoot more than 500 rounds through it-ever. I can fix just about anything so, if it shoots out of the box, save for a catastrophic event, I can keep it working. If I buy one, I'll give it the once over, F&B, polish metal on metal, the feed ramp, etc. I'm wondering if it's as snappy in recoil as the LCP. I'll bet it is.
I agree with you Jim.... I don't look down my nose at inexpensive pieces... sometimes that's all they can afford. I'd much rather see someone defend themselves with an inexpensive firearm than see them become a victim because they couldn't afford a Kimber.
I agree with you Jim.... I don't look down my nose at inexpensive pieces... sometimes that's all they can afford. I'd much rather see someone defend themselves with an inexpensive firearm than see them become a victim because they couldn't afford a Kimber.
Walt Sherrill
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BLB68 said:
Yes. It's a terrible first semi-auto for anyone, and that's the kind of person who often buys one, because of the low price.
The folks who seem to do best with the P-11 are:
1. Folks who only shoot P-11s, and there are a few, and
2. Folks who have shoot revolvers a lot. The trigger pull is similar.
Years back, when I was shooting a P-11 frequently, I decided to use one in an IDPA match. I had NOT shot it for a couple of weeks. My first string with the P-11 was horrid, as I readjusted to the trigger. After that first string I did really well -- and shot nicely for the rest of the match.
I got to thinking: when I carry, I carry a lot but shoot a little. I figured I'd probably have that same experience as at the IDPA match if I had to use a P-11 in a real-world situation. Not everybody would have the problem I had, so it's not a condemnation of the gun. I have a lot of other guns with great triggers, so I'm arguably spoiled.
I later sold it and subsequently got a Kahr PM9, which I liked a lot (but sold when someone made me an offer I couldn't refuse), and a PF9. I'm not crazy about the PF9, but do carry it frequently, and don't have the problems with it that I had with the p-11. The trigger, while not the best, is more like the other guns I shoot. I also have a CM9 I've not shot yet, but may just get a Ruger SR9c. (I have an SR9 and like it a lot.)
short barrel
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You shouldn't buy one because they are not very well made. There is a reason they don't cost as much as others.
Godsgunman
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If its not going to be a carry gun and just sitting in the safe next to the bed why not get a much better, more reliable, easier to shoot gun like a Ruger P95 or s&w 3rd gen 5905 or 6905 for relatively the same price. Tough, reliable, larger, less recoil. With options like those don't waste your time or money on the KT.
mgkdrgn
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If this is only going to be a bedside gun, you really should consider a bigger gun. Grabbing for a gun in the middle of the night, especially when roused from deep sleep? Get something that will fill your hands, not a compact. You should also want a better sight picture due to length of barrel as well. Bigger slides will rack easier if you are nervous or have sweaty hands. Think also how a gun will handle as you get older & older.
You posted that you can afford the additional $50-60s, then spend that on the gun. Why buy additional mags if you don't plan on shooting more than 500 rounds ever?
Isn't your life worth that additional $50-60? Spend it on the gun, not on accessories.
You posted that you can afford the additional $50-60s, then spend that on the gun. Why buy additional mags if you don't plan on shooting more than 500 rounds ever?
Isn't your life worth that additional $50-60? Spend it on the gun, not on accessories.
Jim NE
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If the weapon is strictly for home defense, I'm going to second someone else's suggestion for a Hi Point pistol as a very low cost home defense weapon. Seriously.
Specifically, the JHP, which is the .45 acp model. It's 70 dollars less than the P-11, and has the Keltec beat for out-of-the-box reliability, at least in my limited experience. As I said, the KelTec will require some work to make it a good gun, and some of that work will require extra money. (A Hogue handall grip is another addition that improves the Keltec.)
The recoil on the Hi Point .45 is surprisingly minimal, despite the large caliber. Hi Points can have a break in period, but mine didn't.
A BETTER OPTION:
Had you asked for opinions a couple of years ago, you would've received tons of suggestions to buy the Ruger P-95, in 9mm. This gun was considered by many/most to be the best option for someone getting into 9mm for the first time. It's almost a classic in that respect. Many will agree with me. Unfortunately, Ruger stopped making this great gun a while back, BUT...I found a new-old-stock example on GunsAmerica for very cheap.
One thing that neither of these two alternatives I mentioned have is the safety of the long trigger pull on the P-11. Keep in mind, however, I've also heard that the P-11 isn't as "drop safe" as other semi-autos. That's what I've heard.
And the P-95 Ruger is in a whole different league than the P-11, for just a few dollars more than the Keltec. Best of luck.
http://www.gunsamerica.com/927829745/Ruger_Model_P_95.htm
Specifically, the JHP, which is the .45 acp model. It's 70 dollars less than the P-11, and has the Keltec beat for out-of-the-box reliability, at least in my limited experience. As I said, the KelTec will require some work to make it a good gun, and some of that work will require extra money. (A Hogue handall grip is another addition that improves the Keltec.)
The recoil on the Hi Point .45 is surprisingly minimal, despite the large caliber. Hi Points can have a break in period, but mine didn't.
A BETTER OPTION:
Had you asked for opinions a couple of years ago, you would've received tons of suggestions to buy the Ruger P-95, in 9mm. This gun was considered by many/most to be the best option for someone getting into 9mm for the first time. It's almost a classic in that respect. Many will agree with me. Unfortunately, Ruger stopped making this great gun a while back, BUT...I found a new-old-stock example on GunsAmerica for very cheap.
One thing that neither of these two alternatives I mentioned have is the safety of the long trigger pull on the P-11. Keep in mind, however, I've also heard that the P-11 isn't as "drop safe" as other semi-autos. That's what I've heard.
And the P-95 Ruger is in a whole different league than the P-11, for just a few dollars more than the Keltec. Best of luck.
http://www.gunsamerica.com/927829745/Ruger_Model_P_95.htm
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Walt Sherrill
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If you're talking ONLY home defense, there are a lot of better choices than a P-11. The P-11 was apparently designed and intended to be used for concealed carry. Everything I've read about the Hi-Point says it's ideal as an inexpensive choice... and the people who have owned them, even if they have far more expensive guns, speak highly of them. Most of the critics are non-owners.
That said, I'd give serious thought to a used SHOTGUN. While a shotgun may be harder to maneuver than a handgun, you're arguably more likely to hit what you're aiming at in "home invasion" conditions. Good used pumps or semi-auto SGs can be had for the prices charged for the Kel-Tec P11.
That said, I'd give serious thought to a used SHOTGUN. While a shotgun may be harder to maneuver than a handgun, you're arguably more likely to hit what you're aiming at in "home invasion" conditions. Good used pumps or semi-auto SGs can be had for the prices charged for the Kel-Tec P11.
george burns
Member
You could end up with a paperweight. 2of 3 of my friends p11's snapped firing pins and you won't know until you go to fire it. Saving money on something as important as a gun that is only going to be used to save you and your family, is a bad idea. You don't compromise with your lives.
Armor Snail
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I would buy a CPX 2 before a P11.
Hipoint JHP is a better choice though for strictly HD
Agree with others a S&W SD or P Series Ruger is a great choice.
Witness PS are under 300 on CDNN.
Hipoint JHP is a better choice though for strictly HD
Agree with others a S&W SD or P Series Ruger is a great choice.
Witness PS are under 300 on CDNN.
Onward Allusion
Member
Ok, I'll try to give you a honest opinion... I own a number of Kel-Tecs. I currently own 3 KT P-11's. One was purchased new and the other two, pre-owned. I did have issues with one of the used ones. It seems that its previous owner tried to lighten the trigger by weakening the mainspring. Yeah, light strikes... Aside from that, the worst thing experienced on the P11's was a pin walking out of the frame due to recoil. Nothing a drop of Blue Loctite wouldn't fix.
I like the P-11's for the following reasons.
- No other sub-sub-compact out there in its size or smaller can hold more ammo. PERIOD. Standard capacity is 10+1. One can also get OEM 12 rounders. Finally, the P-11's can use S&W 59 Series Mags. That means you can go up to 20 rounds reliability using Mec Gar magazines. I say reliability because the 30 round ProMag magazines are garbage.
- It is reliable but is prone to limp-wristing due to the short cycle of the slide.
- The DAO is a true DAO, in that every pull of the trigger will completely drive the hammer home. Unlike a lot of the "DAO" pistols out there, the P-11 does not perform a partial trigger reset. Good for a double strike should you need one.
- Lasers are available for it. LaserLyte and ArmaLaser have lasers available for the P-11.
- Recoil is less snappy than a LCP, P3AT, or PF9, or NAA Guardian 380. I know, because I have/had all of 'em.
On the down side, they will never win any beauty contests. They also have plastic magazine catches. This can be a problem if you have a tendency to slap your mags into the well. It wears on the catch and will ultimately cause feeding problems. This is easily fixed with an aftermarket steel catch.
FWIW, a P-11 is in my rotation of carry guns. BTW, I'd sooner trust a P-11 than a 1911 for SD/HD.
meanmrmustard
Member
I have shot, extensively, the P11.
Why shouldn't you buy one?
Two reasons, my opinions: The trigger is HORRIBLE. Second, the worst disassembly of any auto pistol I can remember.
My .02
Why shouldn't you buy one?
Two reasons, my opinions: The trigger is HORRIBLE. Second, the worst disassembly of any auto pistol I can remember.
My .02
Ed Ames
Member
LOL wut? You mean more than field stripping I take it?
Field strip is: Empty/clear, lock slide back, use cartridge rim to pop one pin. From there it comes apart in your hands. Glocks are harder.
Reassembly is just about as easy: Reassemble slide/barrel/guide rod, put slide on gun, lock back. Lift up on guide rod and slide barrel forward. Install pin. Done.
krupparms
Member
I have owned 4 P-11s. Never had a problem with them. I was raised on revolvers, so the trigger never bothered me. I prefer my SD9VE, but the Kel-Tec is more compact. I would say get it if you like it! You can also use 30rd.mags if you can find some!
Charlie Horse
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Fleetman, since I'd have to qualify with it if I carried it, 6K rounds wouldn't be long in coming (500 rounds twice a year), especially when going through the odd mandatory training cycle. I've never been a big fan of trigger shoes on a life and death weapon. Its not like I can tell a great story about the cop killer that got away like I could with my hunting rifle.
USAF_Vet
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I looked at the P-11, but got a screamin' deal on a 2nd gen S&W (model 469). Its a DA/SA, 12+1 with higher capacity magazines available, built like a tank, accurate for the 3.5" barrel. It's a double stack 9mm, so a little big for concealed carry, but that's to be expected from a mid 80's wonder nine, back when concealed carry laws weren't the norm they are today. I suspect mine was a police trade in or from an estate, lots of holster wear, practically unfired.
For a dresser drawer/ night stand gun that's for emergency use, it makes a certain kind of sense to not spend a lot, but if its ever needed for its intended purpose, are the few bucks you saved worth it?
For a dresser drawer/ night stand gun that's for emergency use, it makes a certain kind of sense to not spend a lot, but if its ever needed for its intended purpose, are the few bucks you saved worth it?
meanmrmustard
Member
I think what he was saying is that if Kahr was asked to fix a frame rail after only 6,000 rounds, they assume he abused the pistol.
meanmrmustard
Member
Cartridge to pop a pin? Ha! I've never had such luck. So, lol all you like. To say easier than a Glock, now, that's funny.
For grins, a friend and I once took three practice runs at stripping a P11, an SD9, and a CZ 75, just to see which was fastest. Not only was the SD9 the easiest, but the fastest. The CZ in close second, and the P11 woefully third with no hope of easy disassembly. What you jest as "easy as a Glock", I call a tragedy. I field strip a 1911 faster. With no tools. Blindfolded.
Edit to add: Sorry, you said "Glocks are harder". Funnier still.
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Pukindog12
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Because the Taurus PT111 G2 is out there. Although not a DAO the G2 is a superior firearm.
I am cautious when it comes to Taurus products but the G2 is an exception. The G2 is highly recommended.
I am cautious when it comes to Taurus products but the G2 is an exception. The G2 is highly recommended.
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