Why so many Italian made clones?

[Ohen Cepel]

I am NOT attacking the Italian makers but was wondering today what the turn of events were that created such an Italian manufacturing base for clones of US made firearms.

How did this come about and why?

Thanks in advance for helping me with this pondering.

 

[Dale Alan]

What companies are making clones of USA made firearms ?

 

[NorthBorder]

Uberti, Pedersoli, Pietta, Chiappa.

 

[nettlle]

I blame it on the Good, Bad, and the Ugly.

 

[glockgod]

The spaghetti western

 

[Dale Alan]

Uberti, Pedersoli, Pietta, Chiappa.

OK, I see now . When I saw clones I was thinking clones of Remington 700 rifles and such . Thanks.

 

[BigBore44]

During the 19th century, Colt firearms was one of the leading manufacturers of black powder revolvers. Colt mass produced these revolvers until 1873, when the introduction of smokeless powder and self-contained cartridges made black powder pistols obsolete. The resurgence of these pistols came in 1958, when Italian firearm manufacturers introduced a replica of the 1951 Colt Navy revolver. When these pistols were heavily featured in the Italian "spaghetti" westerns of the 1960s and interest in the revolvers increased, a collaborative effort between Colt and subcontractor Lou Imperato (who was largely responsible for the original replicas) formed and continued until 1993 when Imperato founded Colt Black Powder Arms (which produced the third-generation revolvers until 2002).

 

[DocRock]

During the 19th century, Colt firearms was one of the leading manufacturers of black powder revolvers. Colt mass produced these revolvers until 1873, when the introduction of smokeless powder and self-contained cartridges made black powder pistols obsolete. The resurgence of these pistols came in 1958, when Italian firearm manufacturers introduced a replica of the 1951 Colt Navy revolver. When these pistols were heavily featured in the Italian "spaghetti" westerns of the 1960s and interest in the revolvers increased, a collaborative effort between Colt and subcontractor Lou Imperato (who was largely responsible for the original replicas) formed and continued until 1993 when Imperato founded Colt Black Powder Arms (which produced the third-generation revolvers until 2002).

No.

The French invented smokeless powder (poudre Blanche) in 1886. The Belgians (Centaur) started the reproduction craze. The 100 year anniversary of the Civil War kicked off the interest for such revolvers in the US market. Plenty of other people, like Val Forget, played a major role in developing the market. The Italians were willing and able to build to a price point in the late fifties and sixties, but so were the Spanish, and early clone imports included those from Eibar. The Italians stuck with it.

 

[BigBore44]

No.

The French invented smokeless powder (poudre Blanche) in 1886. The Belgians (Centaur) started the reproduction craze. The 100 year anniversary of the Civil War kicked off the interest for such revolvers in the US market. Plenty of other people, like Val Forget, played a major role in developing the market. The Italians were willing and able to build to a price point in the late fifties and sixties, but so were the Spanish, and early clone imports included those from Eibar. The Italians stuck with it.

https://goneoutdoors.com/identify-generation-black-powder-revolver-7840958.html came up in a discussion I’d had with another member who was trying to remember the Italian guy’s name who started building Colt SA’s. As I wasn’t alive in the 60’s or 70’s, I cannot go off anything else. Clearly the source is incorrect about the date of black powder. And what I can find says smokeless was actually invented in 1884 by Paul Vieille and used in the first production rifle, the Lebel in 1886. That may be where you’re thinking of 1886. I have a nice example of one.

 

[DocRock]

https://goneoutdoors.com/identify-generation-black-powder-revolver-7840958.html came up in a discussion I’d had with another member who was trying to remember the Italian guy’s name who started building Colt SA’s. As I wasn’t alive in the 60’s or 70’s, I cannot go off anything else. Clearly the source is incorrect about the date of black powder. And what I can find says smokeless was actually invented in 1884 by Paul Vieille and used in the first production rifle, the Lebel in 1886. That may be where you’re thinking of 1886. I have a nice example of one.

I apologize. My response above was poorly worded and came off as rude, which was not my intent.

 

[Kano383]

The black powder repros are popular in some European countries because laws allow for easy ownership of these. The Italians found themselves with a market, which expanded into the US. Once the US market started picking up, being tooled up, and with the advent of CNC machining making it easier to manufacture in smaller quantities, they started expanding the BP lines into more "classic repros" lines.

 

[mnrivrat]

I can't speak to the history of the replica's and their market. I bought my first BP Italian revolver around 1970. They were at a good price point, reasonably well made, and something that was fun, different, and appealing. They had historical appeal and they became successful enough with their early offerings to expand and grow.
They have very little competition from outside of Italy for manufacturing replica firearms.

 

[P5 Guy]

How did this come about and why?

Market demand is the cause. The why? because Colt products were/are too expensive and the Italian manufacturers made a reasonably good product at a more affordable price.
Ruger really started the single action demand with their 22LR Single Six.

 

[AlexanderA]

The Belgians (Centaur) started the reproduction craze. The 100 year anniversary of the Civil War kicked off the interest for such revolvers in the US market. Plenty of other people, like Val Forget, played a major role in developing the market. The Italians were willing and able to build to a price point in the late fifties and sixties, but so were the Spanish, and early clone imports included those from Eibar. The Italians stuck with it.

This. In the early days, reproductions were being made in Belgium, Spain, and Italy, but also in Germany and Japan. Italy eventually developed the infrastructure in this industry, that made all the others uncompetitive.

 

[Speedo66]

I've got to think the gazillion cowboy westerns on TV in the 50's and 60's had a bit to do with jump starting the interest in old west guns.

Colt's have always been expensive, and sometimes unobtainable. I guess the Italians persevered and filled the niche at a much lower price point, yet still high quality.

 

[dave951]

Market demand started increasing with the repops brought in by Navy Arms and Val Forgett. Fast forward to recent times and the start of cowboy action shooting along with reenacting and the demand has been strong for guns long out of production domestically and economically not feasible to reproduce here. Originals of the time are mostly collectors items and out of reach of the casual shooter so the next best thing is a repop. Quality varies, some are excellent, some crap. India is the latest to try to get in on the market. They make repops of a number of historic muskets but the flash holes aren't drilled so they can be had cheap as they aren't guns. BUT they are also not built to any level of quality control or proofing so buyer beware with those guys.

 

[vintovka]

Current situation in Europe combined with inflation and new gun laws may mean another black powder "demand" cycle is ahead.

 

[Harriw]

To the OP - thanks very much for a fantastic question. I've often wondered the same thing, and enjoyed reading through these.

 

[dave951]

There's another thing to consider and that is the sheer number of firearms enthusiasts in the country. Lots of them have never had the pleasure of experience of shooting an historic type of gun and there is a certain type of shooter that just likes the old stuff. Couple that increased demand with a finite to shrinking supply and somebody is going to make the modern versions.

 

[vintovka]

Last time I spoke to the late Val Forgett he was lamenting the big drop in BP interest due to milsurps. Bet he would get a big kick about current upsurge and be shocked at prices.

 

[czhen]

Italian manufacturers are very skillful in a many arts from music instruments, furniture, jewelry and of course as we know firearms.
Single action revolvers have had a steady frenzy over the years, but not enough to local manufacturers keep pumping them (sadly many good ones disappeared).
So Italians (along with many great Spaniards shotgun producers) had a big wave punishment over the years almost killing their firearms industry, they had to evolve to survive. Beretta absorbed small producers or joint ventured them since they have the US market M-9.
Pietta, Taylor, Uberti live and shine under the umbrella of Beretta as well as Sako/Tikka I don't know the reach of their agreement may be financially or parts exchange manufacturing (like Ferrari which many small parts are made out side of Maranello factory in frontier hills of Italy.)
We are very fortunate that we can still have some of them with the only downside of eclectic customer service.

 

[Mike OTDP]

The repro market exploded in the late 1950s with the Civil War Centennial. With the Bicentennial hard behind it. There was a lot of interest in muzzle-loading firearms at the time - and I don't mean the inlines. The Italians and Spanish capitalized on it...but it was the Italians who kept the market going.

Interest in BP shooting in Europe picked up around 1965, with the first international match in 1971.

 

[Speedo66]

India is the latest to try to get in on the market. They make repops of a number of historic muskets but the flash holes aren't drilled so they can be had cheap as they aren't guns. BUT they are also not built to any level of quality control or proofing so buyer beware with those guys.

India is doing a nice job now with motorcycles, they kept the Royal Enfield name going long after it collapsed in England. Currently making an homage to the 60's bikes, but with modern techniques and modern standards, and at a low price point.

I'd love to see them bring their repros of Webley or Enfield break top revolvers here in a similar manner, with good quality and low price.

 

[DocRock]

India is doing a nice job now with motorcycles, they kept the Royal Enfield name going long after it collapsed in England. Currently making an homage to the 60's bikes, but with modern techniques and modern standards, and at a low price point.

I'd love to see them bring their repros of Webley or Enfield break top revolvers here in a similar manner, with good quality and low price.

One must presume that they can do so. The Italian shotguns were denigrated in comparison to London “Best”; the Spanish guns more so. Now the Turks are able to make a very good gun. So, the Indians moving from piss-poor, dirt cheap, wall hangars to decent reproductions is not impossible but the price will have to go up...

 

[TRX]

Most likely, Italy was less repressive against its gunmaking industry than the rest of the EU. Some fine old Spanish manufacturers basically got hounded out of business; their names are still around, but the actual guns are mostly made in Italy or Belgium.