SigfanUSAF
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I still have my BDUs drycleaned. They are faded enough from 4 years of use. I don't want my E4 stripes to fade anymore
Of course, I have a rusty '73 Ford, not an H2
Why so much hostility towards "tactical"
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I still have my BDUs drycleaned. They are faded enough from 4 years of use. I don't want my E4 stripes to fade anymore
Of course, I have a rusty '73 Ford, not an H2
.38 Special
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The reenactor types aren't expecting anyone to take them seriously.
I think the hate for tactical things stems from the 'tacticool' or 'tacticlol' fanboys who, like the teen aged American hip-hop car culture, do ridiculous things to weapons. Laser sights, lights, night sights, are all legitimate and tactically advantageous products.
What most people most likely consider the bad tactical and harbor the most animosity for are pistol grip shotguns, riced out AR15's with EOTech sights, lasers, a forward grip, and a microwave. Another bad impression one might get of the tactical crowd are guys that go to the gun ranges sporting 5.11 pants with web belts, bandoliers, kevlar helmets, combat boots and so forth. Sure, theres nothing wrong with getting way devoted into your hobby. I have friends who've dropped THOUSANDS of dollars into pool cues that are made from the same wood as Noah's ark.
There isn't anything wrong with modern, compact weaponry. Collapsable stocks on rifles are great for different sized people. Night sights, lasers, and lights are all perfect for low light scenarios because hey, 12 hours out of the day are dark
What most people most likely consider the bad tactical and harbor the most animosity for are pistol grip shotguns, riced out AR15's with EOTech sights, lasers, a forward grip, and a microwave. Another bad impression one might get of the tactical crowd are guys that go to the gun ranges sporting 5.11 pants with web belts, bandoliers, kevlar helmets, combat boots and so forth. Sure, theres nothing wrong with getting way devoted into your hobby. I have friends who've dropped THOUSANDS of dollars into pool cues that are made from the same wood as Noah's ark.
There isn't anything wrong with modern, compact weaponry. Collapsable stocks on rifles are great for different sized people. Night sights, lasers, and lights are all perfect for low light scenarios because hey, 12 hours out of the day are dark
.38 Special
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Actually, I'm liking the microwave idea. You know, in case you get the munchies while foiling a terrorist plot.
I figure those "tactical" pants ought to hold at least half a dozen "Hungry Man" dinners.
I figure those "tactical" pants ought to hold at least half a dozen "Hungry Man" dinners.
Sunray
Member
There's no such thing as a 'tactical' rifle, flashlight, sling, rifle case, knife or underwear. The word 'tactical' when applied to anything firearm or shooting related is the current marketing buzz word, nothing more. It's occasionally defined as anything black with velcro. Just like my $8Cdn Chinese made runners.
The marketing buzz word used to be 'police'. Winchester made a Model 70A Police in .308. It was a parkerized M70 with an oiled stock. Now, it'd be called a Win Model 70A Tactical. It was, and still is, just a Model 70 with a different finish.
The marketing buzz word used to be 'police'. Winchester made a Model 70A Police in .308. It was a parkerized M70 with an oiled stock. Now, it'd be called a Win Model 70A Tactical. It was, and still is, just a Model 70 with a different finish.
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.38 Special
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ROFLMAO!
SigfanUSAF
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So if you go back to that M4 torture test thread, would a hot pocket or a Swanson cook faster if held above the flash hider?
.38 Special
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Which is as it should be. Everybody switch back to blue jeans and stop frightening the antis.
"He looks like he's hoping he gets to shoot someone!"
Probably nothing, when one knows how to use them correctly...
But, c'mon, dude, a Rush shirt? So 1980's, most of us outgrew that phase or at a minimum stayed with Led Zeppelin. I got rid of my Rush tablature around 1986, and those particular notes will never grace my Mosrite. Damn, I used to have a little respect for ya before I saw that.
Free Alex (Lifeson) Zivojinovic from police brutality! It was Alex Lifeson Disease that got him into trouble, he couldn't help it!
http://www.dinosaurrockguitar.com/dinothinking.shtml#ALDisease
But, c'mon, dude, a Rush shirt? So 1980's, most of us outgrew that phase or at a minimum stayed with Led Zeppelin. I got rid of my Rush tablature around 1986, and those particular notes will never grace my Mosrite. Damn, I used to have a little respect for ya before I saw that.
Free Alex (Lifeson) Zivojinovic from police brutality! It was Alex Lifeson Disease that got him into trouble, he couldn't help it!
http://www.dinosaurrockguitar.com/dinothinking.shtml#ALDisease
madmike
Member
You know, I spent 14 of 16 years in the AF (since I came in when we had fatigues, before we went "Tactical") beating on people about that.
The BDUs, per reg and mfr spec, DO NOT get ironed, starched, bleached or exposed to temperatures above 130f during cleaning.
Doing so renders them unserviceable and NON tactical.
Biggest sign of a poser
You don't wear BDUs to look neat. They are a COMBAT UNIFORM.
Geronimo45
Member
BDUs - like a zip-up camoflauge suit, they don't work so good after being washed. Dry cleaning is a lot easier on the material, and allows it to last longer and stay more comfortable.
madmike
Member
Lifeson is far more effective than Page. Sure, you can have that 1960s style guitar, but a MODERN guitar is lighter, faster and provides just as much decibel per hour. The Les Paul is simply overpowered for most concert halls, while the PRS allows a longer performance on stage. Logistics, man, logistics! Besides, it takes detachable strings instead of clip-loaded ones...
Fixed
P.S. I've been teaching myself to play bass on a rinky dink Fender Squire for about a month now. How'd you learn?
Eeeh, 36-2903 states BDU's are to be pressed and serviceable. It does say not to startch them however. Something to do with destroying their ability to hide your body heat from infrared and reducing their ability to shield you from class-A radiation particles.
madmike
Member
Dry cleaning is authorized...but hard to do in the field.
SigfanUSAF
Member
Yeah, but nothing beats those Oriental ladies at Sheppard AFB, the CREASES from STARCHING would actually crack Had to start going off base, or wash (COLD) mine then IRON
I assure you, altering my BDUs in this way never made me any more visible on the flightline.
Had to start going off base, or wash (COLD) mine then IRON I assure you, altering my BDUs in this way never made me any more visible on the flightline.
.38 Special
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Thread highjacking complete. Well done!
madmike
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I actually had guitar lessons from the guitarist for Head East, and guitar and bass lessons in Rantoul, IL by a very good instructor, then picked up keyboard a bit by myself.
Let's NOT start on keyboard vs guitar.:banghead:
Let's NOT start on keyboard vs guitar.:banghead:
lionking
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lol!..madmike.
well about the only time you'll ever see me "dressed for success" in BDUs and web belts with ammo pouches will be if the shtf ever really happens.Some post alot of things about shtf,like it will be a adventure in Red Dawn or something.BDUs are comfortable but I refuse to wear them to a public range just because of possibly looking like a wannabe warrior.
I have a Armson sight on a AR15,not against gadgets,lights and stuff but the more you put on your warrior rifle the more can break.Flashlights,for home defense sounds reasonable.Personally a front handle on the AR15 looks ugly and useless.But too each their own.
I've just seen some people who immediately put dots,scopes and whatever on a rifle and never bother to practice with open sights,which I think people should learn open sight marksmanship even if they add on stuff latter.One thing I like about the Armson on the AR15 it allows me to use either the reddot or open sights.
Just give me a stock M14 and I'll feel real secure.
*edit*...hey madmike,let me go off topic a minute with 'ya and show you my *tactical* music gear.I need a LesPaul in the battery,but when I do it wont have a flashlight attached lol!
well about the only time you'll ever see me "dressed for success" in BDUs and web belts with ammo pouches will be if the shtf ever really happens.Some post alot of things about shtf,like it will be a adventure in Red Dawn or something.BDUs are comfortable but I refuse to wear them to a public range just because of possibly looking like a wannabe warrior.
I have a Armson sight on a AR15,not against gadgets,lights and stuff but the more you put on your warrior rifle the more can break.Flashlights,for home defense sounds reasonable.Personally a front handle on the AR15 looks ugly and useless.But too each their own.
I've just seen some people who immediately put dots,scopes and whatever on a rifle and never bother to practice with open sights,which I think people should learn open sight marksmanship even if they add on stuff latter.One thing I like about the Armson on the AR15 it allows me to use either the reddot or open sights.
Just give me a stock M14 and I'll feel real secure.
*edit*...hey madmike,let me go off topic a minute with 'ya and show you my *tactical* music gear.I need a LesPaul in the battery,but when I do it wont have a flashlight attached lol!
Nope.
Lifeson just plain pussed-out after 1983's Signals, and became an accompanist. Sad, because I know the old bird could probably belt 'em out if given the chance.
BTW, don't screw with my Mosrite. My Fender Icehouse Squier Strat is fair game for ridicule, but I searched long and hard, and spent a goodly amount of my saved TDY per diem, to find an original Mosrite in excellent condition.
I just retired after 20+ years in the Air Force. I had my BDUs dry-cleaned and pressed, no starch please, but only because washing them faded the camo. I started out my career wearing the green fatigues, and at least those were both comfortable and easy to work with. After we got BDUs I wore them maybe once a month on squadron Warrior Day or when I didn't feel like wearing Nomex. (Yearly flight physicals with the prostrate exam, etc.) Otherwise it was the green bag, issued free of charge by Uncle Sam. None of us really cared for the BDU uniform, all the patches, rank, cost to maintain, fading, blousing, etc. I still have a set in the closet, but only because I haven't made that trip to Goodwill I keep putting off. I have no desire to play commando, I had a military uniform for a good chunk of my life, and find it actually funny as hell that folks want to emulate that, wanting to be all badass and such. Go sign on the dotted line and do your time in Ickystan. Then check back with me and see how much you want to wear BDUs on your day off.
As for tactical wannabees and poseurs, yeah, we'll never be rid of them. I see poseurs all the time - on Harleys that are spotless, drinking cappucino while the bike is on a lift at the local dealership having the oil changed, or showing up at the range with something like this:
I met Jeff Cooper once. I'll never forget what he said. "It's not what you can do, but what you can do on demand..."
Lee Lapin, SM, you speak wisdom. Somebody with the right training and mindset is going to win the encounter with a barebones gun long before a poseur with the above Rooney Gun ever knew what hit him. Toys don't equal experience, nor can you buy experience and attach it to your M4gery.
Lifeson just plain pussed-out after 1983's Signals, and became an accompanist. Sad, because I know the old bird could probably belt 'em out if given the chance.
BTW, don't screw with my Mosrite. My Fender Icehouse Squier Strat is fair game for ridicule, but I searched long and hard, and spent a goodly amount of my saved TDY per diem, to find an original Mosrite in excellent condition.
I just retired after 20+ years in the Air Force. I had my BDUs dry-cleaned and pressed, no starch please, but only because washing them faded the camo. I started out my career wearing the green fatigues, and at least those were both comfortable and easy to work with. After we got BDUs I wore them maybe once a month on squadron Warrior Day or when I didn't feel like wearing Nomex. (Yearly flight physicals with the prostrate exam, etc.) Otherwise it was the green bag, issued free of charge by Uncle Sam. None of us really cared for the BDU uniform, all the patches, rank, cost to maintain, fading, blousing, etc. I still have a set in the closet, but only because I haven't made that trip to Goodwill I keep putting off. I have no desire to play commando, I had a military uniform for a good chunk of my life, and find it actually funny as hell that folks want to emulate that, wanting to be all badass and such. Go sign on the dotted line and do your time in Ickystan. Then check back with me and see how much you want to wear BDUs on your day off.
As for tactical wannabees and poseurs, yeah, we'll never be rid of them. I see poseurs all the time - on Harleys that are spotless, drinking cappucino while the bike is on a lift at the local dealership having the oil changed, or showing up at the range with something like this:
I met Jeff Cooper once. I'll never forget what he said. "It's not what you can do, but what you can do on demand..."
Lee Lapin, SM, you speak wisdom. Somebody with the right training and mindset is going to win the encounter with a barebones gun long before a poseur with the above Rooney Gun ever knew what hit him. Toys don't equal experience, nor can you buy experience and attach it to your M4gery.
carpediem
Member
I guess I'll play the devil's advocate for a little *ducks behind up-armored class 17 kevler bi-composite plates w/ titanium inserts*
Disclaimer: I do not own anything remotely tactical (ok, well maybe my modded flashlights and spyderco knives, but these are useful vestiges from my high school years, I swear!!! ).
I tend to agree that gadgetry is no substitute for experience in general
However, I wouldn't want to place bets on a expert marksman in the dark v.s. a beginner w/ 'tactiCOOL' night vision
My point is, experience isn't everything: there are some situations where dedicated tools can be worth morth than experience.
Having said that, I firmly believe that experience is worth more than gadgetry at least 98% of the time, which is why I'd rather buy a case of 22lr for the range than a $$$ tactical bipod for a CQC gun.
Disclaimer: I do not own anything remotely tactical (ok, well maybe my modded flashlights and spyderco knives, but these are useful vestiges from my high school years, I swear!!!
). I tend to agree that gadgetry is no substitute for experience in general
However, I wouldn't want to place bets on a expert marksman in the dark v.s. a beginner w/ 'tactiCOOL' night vision
My point is, experience isn't everything: there are some situations where dedicated tools can be worth morth than experience.
Having said that, I firmly believe that experience is worth more than gadgetry at least 98% of the time, which is why I'd rather buy a case of 22lr for the range than a $$$ tactical bipod for a CQC gun.
statelineblues
Member
There's a gun in there..............?
"Tactical" stuff is objectionable mainly because 1) it's a crass, unabashed marketing campaign that plays to our fetish for gadgets, and 2) it's at the expense of the "Strategic".
If I miss the electric bill to buy a night vision scope for the AR, and figure that the combination of the two puts the criminal at a disadvantage, that's pretty Tactical, but not very Strategic.
Now, I bought a Surefire forend for my 870 back when Surefire was still Laser Products Corp, and it's spiffy, and I love cool toys on principle, but I don't doubt for a minute that people in the firearm accessories market nowadays aren't laughing themselves silly as they count the money. Lots of things that greatly enhance the effectiveness of an infantry squad in Iraq have absolutely no value to me in my everyday life, and I'm going to burn enough money getting my children an education, I don't need H&K mags and a night vision optic for my AR right now, and I'm not at all sure that I'm as good as dead if so much as an acorn falls off a tree because I haven't bought them yet.
If I miss the electric bill to buy a night vision scope for the AR, and figure that the combination of the two puts the criminal at a disadvantage, that's pretty Tactical, but not very Strategic.
Now, I bought a Surefire forend for my 870 back when Surefire was still Laser Products Corp, and it's spiffy, and I love cool toys on principle, but I don't doubt for a minute that people in the firearm accessories market nowadays aren't laughing themselves silly as they count the money. Lots of things that greatly enhance the effectiveness of an infantry squad in Iraq have absolutely no value to me in my everyday life, and I'm going to burn enough money getting my children an education, I don't need H&K mags and a night vision optic for my AR right now, and I'm not at all sure that I'm as good as dead if so much as an acorn falls off a tree because I haven't bought them yet.
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