Why Switchblades Are Banned

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Butterfly knives were considered by LEOs in many states to be "gravity Knives" and no different from a switch blade in being illegal or an indication of bad folks.

I once miss placed a spider co I carried during a firearms class. I grabbed my butterfly, which I used sometimes as a dive knife and slid it into my hip pocket along side my wallet. When the instructor called for a knife check ( he insists LEOs and armed citizens should have a knife) out came some very nice and expensive one handed openers. But the sound of my butterfly spreading its wings caused over half the class to look back in something approaching horror.

Go figure.

Fortunately one of the local LEOs explained they were no longer illegal here and that I was a nut job anyway.

-kBob
My brother in law (LEO) said much the same including the warning if he ever found it in my possession off the property he would see I spent a night in jail.

My cousin (cut throat divorce lawyer) countered by saying the day his opinion overruled the law in the State of Indiana he should do that, until then I would own his retirement and most of his departments' budget for the next ten years.
 
If possible I'd still like to hear a clear explanation of knife laws in Maryland (as they apply in the Baltimore case...) where it's been said in the press that under state law you have one situation under city law in Baltimore you have a different legal situation...

This seems less than reasonable to this old retired cop...

You got it. Just to get a few things out of the way first:
1. The knife in that specific case you're talking about is not actually been shown or identified, but most sources seem to indicate it was an assisted opener and not a switchblade.
2. I am neither LEO nor lawyer, but I live in MD and have spend a decade researching the laws of the state, including going to courthouses, reading transcripts, interviewing State's Attorneys and cops.

Alright so state law re knives is under 4-105 and 4-101 of the criminal code. 4-105 makes it illegal to sell or advertise switchblades. It doesn't address carry but it does provide the legal definition of what a switchblade is for purpose of other statutes.

"a knife or a penknife having a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring, or other device in the handle of the knife, commonly called a switchblade knife or a switchblade penknife"

The underlined text is identical legal language used in the federal statute, which has been ruled to not include assisted openers. I have yet to verify a single prosecution for an A.O. in the state of Maryland. I have had people anecdotally claim they heard someone got arrested for one, but they never have any proof it happened. In the one incident where I was talking to someone directly who claimed he was arrested for an A.O., I determined his real identity, went to the courthouse he was charged at, read the police report and court transcript, and found he was actually arresting for punching his girlfriend in the face. So I take anecdotal evidence with a grain of salt.

The carry statute 4-101, summed up, makes it illegal to carry certain weapons concealed. This includes switchblades explicitly, but specifically excludes "penknives." This is not defined but a major case in the 70s ruled it's all folders, no matter the size or mechanism, so long as it's not a true switchblade. That court decision is still in force today. A 2002 case where an Charles County sheriff's dept officer arrested a man for a folder resulted in the charges being dropped and the officer held liable in federal court for violation of civil rights. Might be worth mentioning the officer was white and the detainee was black, and that the detainee had done nothing wrong at all; it was merely mistaken identity, and the arrest for the knife was made after he was determined at the scene to be innocent of any other crime. Officer claimed he didn't know any better about the penknife exception; court said it's your friggin' job to know the law when you arrest someone.

Anyhow, where it gets sticky is Baltimore City Code, specifically Article 19 (Police Ordinances), Subtitle 59 (Weapons), Section § 59-22. It makes it illegal to merely possess a switchblade, including ownership or carry of any kind, concealed or not. It defines a switchblade as:

any knife with an automatic spring or other device for opening and/or closing the blade

That is where the problem lies. This language is very different from the vast majority of switchblade statutes in it's phrasing and could be interpreted to include assisted-openers, even if that was not intended. Even if a court were to rule that this does not include assisted openers, officers would have grounds to claim they reasonably felt this law included them if there was no other guidance (such as a training or memo). Is it a stupid law? Yes, absolutely. But it was the law in effect at the time. I only hope this creates enough of a stink that the city will repeal it. I even hear liberals in my area say these knife laws are stupid, even if their reasoning is that it lets cops have excuses to harass minorities. Hey whatever works to get the law repealed, especially if you can get both sides of the aisle on board.
 
Carried one since about sixteen and never had a problem, issued one in the Army with an orange handle, carried one as an LEO, carried what ever butterfly, gravity , necker or non magnetic knife (or sap) evil idiots can think to justify their $$$$$$ making a law against. I prefer in my old age not to carry one of my OTF or conventional button knives in my old age, but give a crap about such trampling of my rights.
 
We just got 'em un-bant here in Oklahoma (for carry in public -- mere possession was always legal). The law takes effect in November.

I remember a friend way back in High School had an old Italian knife he called a "stiletto," but it wasn't the folding type you usually see called that. The blade retracted straight back into the handle, and had a very strong spring on it. It would punch through a phone book if you stuck it up to it and hit the switch. Anybody know what knife this might be, or where I could find one?
 
I remember a friend way back in High School had an old Italian knife he called a "stiletto," but it wasn't the folding type you usually see called that. The blade retracted straight back into the handle, and had a very strong spring on it. It would punch through a phone book if you stuck it up to it and hit the switch. Anybody know what knife this might be, or where I could find one?

Technically that's not a stiletto, but rather an Out-The-Front (OTF) automatic. Yeah I know people call them stilettos a lot but it's not correct. Stiletto just means a knife with a long, skinny blade.
 
Then there's the ones that shoot the blade out as a projectile.
No end to ingenuity of weapons designs.
And why attempts to control them is a waste of energy.
 
Anyhow, where it gets sticky is Baltimore City Code, specifically Article 19 (Police Ordinances), Subtitle 59 (Weapons), Section § 59-22. It makes it illegal to merely possess a switchblade, including ownership or carry of any kind, concealed or not. It defines a switchblade as:

Quote:
any knife with an automatic spring or other device for opening and/or closing the blade
That is where the problem lies. This language is very different from the vast majority of switchblade statutes in it's phrasing

The reason the Baltimore law should not be considered to equate assisted openers with switchblade is that assisted openers don't open the blade whereas autos do. The reason federal law now excludes AOs is that it was recognized that AOs have to be manually opened by thumb stud or "fin" on the blade before the spring carries the blade to the safety lock position. With AOs the mechanism is biased to closed and you have to manually overcome that and then get the blade open to the point the spring engages to push the blade to the safely locked position. This isn't a subtle difference, but it isn't easy for some people to grasp. No button or other trigger on the handle, bias to close has to be overcome manually by pressure on the blade, spring doesn't engage to open the knife until the blade is opened past a set point in AOs vs. an auto that the spring is always pushing the blade open and would start to open the blade if not for the lock holding it closed that is activated by the button/trigger on the handle. We will see in court if the distinction between AOs and switchblades is recognized adding to the case law on this in MD.

There's even a new type of completely manual knife with very smooth pivot bearings that has a strong detent to hold the blade against the finger pressure to open it so the blade pops forward when the detent is overridden and that energy now carries the blade to the safety lock position.

***

My brother in law (LEO) said much the same including the warning if he ever found it in my possession off the property he would see I spent a night in jail.

Officer's Wife,

I don't know if your BIL is an idiot, a bad cop, or has some sort of personal beef with you, but I'm glad your cousin served him notice to his face and in front of others that he was being an jerk and would be dragged through court if he ever played that game.
 
...issued one in the Army with an orange handle...
Made by Camillus? There's a story (urban legend?) about those. The one I saw had a standard blade that opened with the button and a manually opened hooked "blade" supposedly designed to cut parachute cords. The story goes that the button was supposed to open the hooked blade, not the regular knife blade but that an error was made and the entire order was shipped/signed off before anyone realized it.

I don't know if it's true, but it's an interesting story.

From what I've read elsewhere, the hooked blade was intended to remain open and therefore there would have been no reason for it to open automatically. Of course that doesn't explain why the main blade needed to be automatic...
 
See this about that!

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=685080&highlight=Switchblade

To further the history.
The first Shroud Cutter knives were 6" Long with a fixed blade hook cutter.
The sheath was sewn into the parachute harness by the riggers.
Made by Schrade-Waldon, and Aerial Metal &Tool.

The first folding knife was a single blade switch-blade with jiggled bone scales, made by Schrade / Cutco in 1940.

Others later included the model M2 single blade switch-blade made by Schrade, and Cammillus.

Then came the MC-1 switchblade with the folding shroud line hook.
It was adopted in 1958, and made by Schrade-Walden, Camillus, and Logan/Smith.

Two things.
1. The military adopted the MC-1 switch-blade knife the same year the government out-lawed them for everyone else.

2. The Logan/Smyth MC-1 was of such poor quality they were unusable when they were issued!

I have never seen one that wouldn't open by accident with the safety on, or not open at all with it off!!

3. The typical Cammillus wasn't much better.
Never handled a Schrade -Waldon, so I don't know about them.
But I doubt they were much better, as they were all produced under the same shady contract.
rc
 
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Early 1970's in US Army in Germany the ne plus ultra among the troops was a elk horn scaled Eichorn switch blade that had a locking blade. Everyone wanted one of the little Squirrel mark knives. It was said however that if you wanted one you needed a strong arm.....so as to throw it far away if you were being stopped by our own MPs. It used to tickle me to no end that troops trusted with M-16A1 rifles and 108 rounds of ammo in one part of Europe could not be trusted with a switchblade in the rear.

The buck 110 and 112 were so popular because they were as close as we could get to legally owning a one hand opening knife in those days.

My own Eichorn was a legacy given to me by someone returning to the Continental US and I passed it on to a promising FNG when I left.

My first Infantry Company Commander had no issue with them. In fact during one open wall locker inspection in which I was the ranking man in our bay he found one and went bonkers......because it was dirty and not sharpen to his standard. He shook it in my face (rather than the owner's) and told me he expected to see it clean and sharp before COB-retreat-beer call. His replacement was a total wheenie that actually used a ruler to measure common pocket knives with........the joy of being in the ever changing/ never changing Army.


-kBob
 
I don't know if it's true

It isn't. The clip point blade was always supposed to have been the auto blade. The hook was supposed to have been carried open in a snap pocket to deploy quickly to be used for cutting the canopy lines. See post #6 in this Bladeforums thread. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/492852-I-hate-to-ask-this-question

The as-issued-in-the-paper Camillus I have was given to me 20+ years ago by a retired USAF Looking Glass pilot.

Here's the drawing for the knife. Note the auto is the clip point and not the hook.
MC-1_Figure1_90E.jpg

The attached PDF is the full specification. Note section 3.4 that the "snap blade" is the clip point.
 

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