Why the hate on the flying brass?
- Thread starter Nushif
- Start date
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The outdoor range I frequent provides screens for the semi-auto shooters who use the bench rest positions. At the plinking range it is every man for himself. I have noticed though, that the people at the plinking range who race to see how fast they can empty a magazine are the same ones who will shoot at a fresh milk jug someone else set up at the other end of the pit during the cease-fire (as in "see - I can pray and spray your target to bits before you can line up your sights. Now that yours is obliterated I'll shoot my own").
Being hit by an occasional piece of brass is a recreational hazard. Being pelted with 30 in quick succession ruins an outing and shows poor breeding on the part of the pelter, in my opinion.
I think that there should be a designated section of the range for AR/AK shooters and the shooter on the far left should be required to rotate to the far right every cease-fire. If brass showers are that much fun, everyone should have a turn. I'll even take a spot in that line when I take my Garand out to play.
Being hit by an occasional piece of brass is a recreational hazard. Being pelted with 30 in quick succession ruins an outing and shows poor breeding on the part of the pelter, in my opinion.
I think that there should be a designated section of the range for AR/AK shooters and the shooter on the far left should be required to rotate to the far right every cease-fire. If brass showers are that much fun, everyone should have a turn. I'll even take a spot in that line when I take my Garand out to play.
Coupla simple rules for avoiding conflict in this life...
1. Don't spit your tobacco on my shoes
2. Don't spit your hot brass down my t-shirt
I'll reciprocate.
I'm going to disagree with this to some extent.
While I will never intentionally look in your direction, and go through a conscious effort to spit tobacco on your shoes, I cannot guarantee that a rifle, as designed, will not eject brass in your direction.
It's not that I would be intentionally aiming to send brass down your shirt, but it must be an acceptable reality at any range where semi-automatic weapons are in use. I am always courteous within reason, but I never go out of my way to make sure brass does not hit the bench next over. If someone sits down and has an issue with it, they may choose a bench further away, or they may fire when I take a break, and let me fire while they take a break.
Along the courtesy, I also will never dump a full mag out and shower anyone next to me with brass, and expect the same from the person to my left. If someone to my left is doing regular mag dumps, I'll either request a bench further down, or get up while they're shooting. Usually, those types of guys do a few mag dumps and then head home. I don't mind hanging out for 30 minutes if it means I get the next 3 hours free of brass showers
Dueling1911s
Member
i got 2nd degree burns once from my own brass
i was shooting one of my 1911's at an indoor range with cement walls between each stall. i had not one but two 45 casings bounce of the wall and get stuck between my neck and shoulder. plus it was quite warms in there so i was sweating quite a bit. the brass seared my skin like a cold steak hitting a hot grill. so here i am with 2 casings searing me while i have a 45 with a half magazine left. calmly clicked on the safety and set her down pointing down range. and then jumped around cursing bloody murder. i had 2 giant scabs on my neck for a couple weeks.
best part was when i came home and told my old lady that my trophy blonde gf Lesley (my les baer) had left some hickies on my neck. the look on her face was pricless
i was shooting one of my 1911's at an indoor range with cement walls between each stall. i had not one but two 45 casings bounce of the wall and get stuck between my neck and shoulder. plus it was quite warms in there so i was sweating quite a bit. the brass seared my skin like a cold steak hitting a hot grill. so here i am with 2 casings searing me while i have a 45 with a half magazine left. calmly clicked on the safety and set her down pointing down range. and then jumped around cursing bloody murder. i had 2 giant scabs on my neck for a couple weeks.
best part was when i came home and told my old lady that my trophy blonde gf Lesley (my les baer) had left some hickies on my neck. the look on her face was pricless
Nushif
Member
This. This is exactly why I am wondering at this frothing rage at times.
Sav .250
Member
It is a pain but some shooters are aware of this problem and use a catch net
for their flying brass. I give those guys credit.
for their flying brass. I give those guys credit.
Dueling1911s
Member
i love going to the range and seeing guys bring their lady's who dont know about brass can fly down their shirts. them jumping around is hilarious. i'm a little twisted
i have my brass catcher for my AR. the guy next to me is always gracious
i have my brass catcher for my AR. the guy next to me is always gracious
Nushif
Member
My wife calmly reaches down into those beautiful depths with consternation, rummages around a bit, throws the brass over her shoulders and finishes her mags, much less exciting to watch, but so much more cool.
oldfool
Member
you are living on borrowed time, Nushif, leastways if that be your brass on your lady ! 
(did she never explain the farmer and the mule 'joke' to you yet ???)
PS
hey, read this thread again, and notice the only one singing the "frothing rage" theme is...
Many here do protest the lack of common courtesy and common sense sometimes displayed by public range shooters. Those who protest too loudly that specific location and choice of hardware excuse the lack of either really ought review that amusing video up thread. No frothing rage, just a well deserved slap in the head. Not something the posters here are prone to actually do, but still no reason why we cannot or should not 'relate'.
Whatever 'rage' there be here, seems to me coming from those who believe that their enjoyment of their preferred toys exempts them from consideration of others. Some people drive their cars in much the same manner, and they mostly get away with it; Road Rage, for all the media hype not really all that common an occurrence. Then again YMMV. If it do... ponder why.
(did she never explain the farmer and the mule 'joke' to you yet ???)
PS
hey, read this thread again, and notice the only one singing the "frothing rage" theme is...
Many here do protest the lack of common courtesy and common sense sometimes displayed by public range shooters. Those who protest too loudly that specific location and choice of hardware excuse the lack of either really ought review that amusing video up thread. No frothing rage, just a well deserved slap in the head. Not something the posters here are prone to actually do, but still no reason why we cannot or should not 'relate'.
Whatever 'rage' there be here, seems to me coming from those who believe that their enjoyment of their preferred toys exempts them from consideration of others. Some people drive their cars in much the same manner, and they mostly get away with it; Road Rage, for all the media hype not really all that common an occurrence. Then again YMMV. If it do... ponder why.
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It is common courtesy to not pelt your fellow shooter with hot brass. Does it piss me off when I have to duck because the guy next to me is an idiot? Yep!
So you poor fellows who think it is ok to let flying brass hit the guy next to you might think about the edges actually cutting the guys face or leaving blisters on his chest and belly. It is far from being courteous.
So you poor fellows who think it is ok to let flying brass hit the guy next to you might think about the edges actually cutting the guys face or leaving blisters on his chest and belly. It is far from being courteous.
WardenWolf
member
The occasional shell is to be expected. However, virtually everyone's been next to a range jerk on at least one occasion, where they're firing shot after shot and just pelting you with blistering hot casings. Don't be a jerk to your fellow shooters. *That* is not acceptable. They're doing it, and they know they're doing it, and they don't care.
Then there was the guy at the indoor range that brought his AR-15 with muzzle brake. He was absolutely blasting everyone's ears. Then about 15 minutes later he stops and screws on his silencer. If you think he was getting dirty looks before, imagine the looks he got when everyone realized he could have been shooting quietly all that time.
These are the same types of people who talk on their cellphones while driving 10 miles under the speed limit in the left lane and refuse to move over: they don't care about anyone else in the world.
Then there was the guy at the indoor range that brought his AR-15 with muzzle brake. He was absolutely blasting everyone's ears. Then about 15 minutes later he stops and screws on his silencer. If you think he was getting dirty looks before, imagine the looks he got when everyone realized he could have been shooting quietly all that time.
These are the same types of people who talk on their cellphones while driving 10 miles under the speed limit in the left lane and refuse to move over: they don't care about anyone else in the world.
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Buck Kramer
Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2009
- Messages
- 683
My RPK throws shells about 20 yards to the direct right so I always position myself far on the right of the bench and there's never a problem...
JohnBT
Member
"This is exactly why I am wondering at this frothing rage at times."
What frothing rage? Did a comment hit a little close to home?
What frothing rage? Did a comment hit a little close to home?
Nushif
Member
Alright, let me reply again, to this, using italics wherever I am quoting others, who have contributed to this actually valuable thread, once any kind of objective discussion happened. You said:
“What frothing rage? Did a comment hit a little close to home?”
Which is a clever little insinuation that clearly the one daring to ask about the elephant in the room is the one who put it there.
I will simply repeat what I said before:
“Let's not assume that simply because I don't share every bit of a point of view that I am the exact opposite. I don't like hitting people with brass, and in my original post I very much stated that I understand some minor frustration.”
I will, as a matter of fact, state again what I said earlier as to clarifying the question, event though I thought I was pretty darned clear:
“What I do not understand is this frothing Range Rage and name calling that seems to be directed at anyone whose gun dares kick brass.”
As for examples of this name calling, or rather clever insinuations, because we don't condone direct name calling here. I will quote a few:
“Or one could just be a selfish jack*** and not care about anybody but one's self...”
“Good lord, a perfect example why some people shouldn't be around guns.”
“Inconsiderate jerks need to bring their dad, mom or wife along to make sure they behave.”
Some people even go on to compare a gun (by design) spitting brass to the following things:
“1. Don't spit your tobacco on my shoes
2. Don't spit your hot brass down my t-shirt“
“You refuse to see the obvious. A lot of people don't like their stuff hit by other people's stuff. Snowballs, empty hulls, cigarette butts, tobacco juice, boogers, gravel from spinning tires, whatever.”
Now, the argument these people are making is that flying brass at a public range is comparable to spitting on someone, littering, spreading other bodily fluids or damaging property via reckless driving.
And I maintain that this is simply not a good argument! Cars, for instance are not designed to throw gravel. Chewing tobacco isn't designed to go on boots, cigarette butts are not designed to go on lawns and frankly there is a massive difference in intent between wiping a booger on someone's stuff and a gun throwing brass by design, furthermore, we have people putting a piece of brass exiting the gun on the same accountability level as a bullet leaving it! People are to account for their guns throwing a (usually) disposable piece of brass the same way as a bullet leaving their gun?! I will quote something here that throws this in very clear light:
“Really? People get upset when a hot casing hits them at the gun range? Do you also get pissed if water gets on you at the pool?”
This quote leads very nicely into the next point here. There have been some very cogent insights here, that I would like to quote as well, which tie in nicely with the public pool comparison:
“The prime offenders are those who show up and promptly indulge themselves with an exhibition of deliberate rudeness in a multitude of ways, sometimes bordering on unsafe.”
And “Being pelted with 30 in quick succession ruins an outing [...]”
Because , again, I quote:
“Being hit by an occasional piece of brass is a recreational hazard [...]”
But:
“The prime offenders are those who show up and promptly indulge themselves with an exhibition of deliberate rudeness in a multitude of ways, sometimes bordering on unsafe.”
This whole scenario relies a lot on a very basic notion here that:
“We all spent our hard earned $$$ to get there and we have a picture perfect idea of how it should go and how other people should react” which needs to be balanced with the fact that “the thing that bothers me is when someone is complaining about it after the fact, when they could have moved to another lane, or asked me to.”
Which leads me to my opinion here, that someone else pointed out so nicely:
“[...] it must be an acceptable reality at any range where semi-automatic weapons are in use.”
So to me it all crystallizes down to the brass not being the actual culprit. Inconsideration, sheer stubborness and lack of communication or civility on both sides is.
“What frothing rage? Did a comment hit a little close to home?”
Which is a clever little insinuation that clearly the one daring to ask about the elephant in the room is the one who put it there.
I will simply repeat what I said before:
“Let's not assume that simply because I don't share every bit of a point of view that I am the exact opposite. I don't like hitting people with brass, and in my original post I very much stated that I understand some minor frustration.”
I will, as a matter of fact, state again what I said earlier as to clarifying the question, event though I thought I was pretty darned clear:
“What I do not understand is this frothing Range Rage and name calling that seems to be directed at anyone whose gun dares kick brass.”
As for examples of this name calling, or rather clever insinuations, because we don't condone direct name calling here. I will quote a few:
“Or one could just be a selfish jack*** and not care about anybody but one's self...”
“Good lord, a perfect example why some people shouldn't be around guns.”
“Inconsiderate jerks need to bring their dad, mom or wife along to make sure they behave.”
Some people even go on to compare a gun (by design) spitting brass to the following things:
“1. Don't spit your tobacco on my shoes
2. Don't spit your hot brass down my t-shirt“
“You refuse to see the obvious. A lot of people don't like their stuff hit by other people's stuff. Snowballs, empty hulls, cigarette butts, tobacco juice, boogers, gravel from spinning tires, whatever.”
Now, the argument these people are making is that flying brass at a public range is comparable to spitting on someone, littering, spreading other bodily fluids or damaging property via reckless driving.
And I maintain that this is simply not a good argument! Cars, for instance are not designed to throw gravel. Chewing tobacco isn't designed to go on boots, cigarette butts are not designed to go on lawns and frankly there is a massive difference in intent between wiping a booger on someone's stuff and a gun throwing brass by design, furthermore, we have people putting a piece of brass exiting the gun on the same accountability level as a bullet leaving it! People are to account for their guns throwing a (usually) disposable piece of brass the same way as a bullet leaving their gun?! I will quote something here that throws this in very clear light:
“Really? People get upset when a hot casing hits them at the gun range? Do you also get pissed if water gets on you at the pool?”
This quote leads very nicely into the next point here. There have been some very cogent insights here, that I would like to quote as well, which tie in nicely with the public pool comparison:
“The prime offenders are those who show up and promptly indulge themselves with an exhibition of deliberate rudeness in a multitude of ways, sometimes bordering on unsafe.”
And “Being pelted with 30 in quick succession ruins an outing [...]”
Because , again, I quote:
“Being hit by an occasional piece of brass is a recreational hazard [...]”
But:
“The prime offenders are those who show up and promptly indulge themselves with an exhibition of deliberate rudeness in a multitude of ways, sometimes bordering on unsafe.”
This whole scenario relies a lot on a very basic notion here that:
“We all spent our hard earned $$$ to get there and we have a picture perfect idea of how it should go and how other people should react” which needs to be balanced with the fact that “the thing that bothers me is when someone is complaining about it after the fact, when they could have moved to another lane, or asked me to.”
Which leads me to my opinion here, that someone else pointed out so nicely:
“[...] it must be an acceptable reality at any range where semi-automatic weapons are in use.”
So to me it all crystallizes down to the brass not being the actual culprit. Inconsideration, sheer stubborness and lack of communication or civility on both sides is.
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oldfool
Member
"the brass not being the actual culprit"
very nicely summarized, Nushif, and most definitely on target
But we all know this thread was prompted by a prior THR post, someone complaining about brass showers of the deliberately rude sort, and that poster was rewarded with yet more deliberate rudeness here on THR.
I cannot judge that poster the way too many did on that one, because I can easily understand (like many others here apparently), that anger and rudeness on the firing line is a very poor choice of response to any situation in which everyone present has a loaded gun in hand, even moreso if/when crappy attitude and arrogance is self evident.
so... "whining" about it on a gun forum afterwards is, in my view, entirely forgivable, and the more prudent choice by far.
"lack of communication or civility on both sides is"
True, but communication and civility is, as you stated, a two way street. It works just fine with 98%+ of shooters I have ever met on the line, but 'a (polite) word to the wise' implies some minimalist evidence of cognitive ability on the receiving end.
For those who qualify as rare exceptions to the rule, I will just pack up my gear and leave,
and maybe 'whine' it about it in cyberspace after, even though I have not done so yet, leastways to my own recollection.
No rage, not even sympathy, but empathy, yes.
go home, kick the can, growl at the dawg, live to shoot another day at the range
(leastways if the dawg loves you enough)
PS
All you here are welcome to shoot your EBRs and/or 30-06s standing within less than 10 feet of me, and on my left, even when we are the only two on a range with 7 or 8 other empty shooting stations. Wouldn't be the first time. If it's a 30-06, I probably won't move anyway, because my hair styling ain't all that tidy nohow.
But if you notice me packing & moving well off to your left with my wussie widdle rimfire stuff, kindly make a mental note to show the next guy, next time, just a little common courtesy. That next guy next time will not judge your manhood harshly for showing weakness.
very nicely summarized, Nushif, and most definitely on target
But we all know this thread was prompted by a prior THR post, someone complaining about brass showers of the deliberately rude sort, and that poster was rewarded with yet more deliberate rudeness here on THR.
I cannot judge that poster the way too many did on that one, because I can easily understand (like many others here apparently), that anger and rudeness on the firing line is a very poor choice of response to any situation in which everyone present has a loaded gun in hand, even moreso if/when crappy attitude and arrogance is self evident.
so... "whining" about it on a gun forum afterwards is, in my view, entirely forgivable, and the more prudent choice by far.
"lack of communication or civility on both sides is"
True, but communication and civility is, as you stated, a two way street. It works just fine with 98%+ of shooters I have ever met on the line, but 'a (polite) word to the wise' implies some minimalist evidence of cognitive ability on the receiving end.
For those who qualify as rare exceptions to the rule, I will just pack up my gear and leave,
and maybe 'whine' it about it in cyberspace after, even though I have not done so yet, leastways to my own recollection.
No rage, not even sympathy, but empathy, yes.
go home, kick the can, growl at the dawg, live to shoot another day at the range
(leastways if the dawg loves you enough)
PS
All you here are welcome to shoot your EBRs and/or 30-06s standing within less than 10 feet of me, and on my left, even when we are the only two on a range with 7 or 8 other empty shooting stations. Wouldn't be the first time. If it's a 30-06, I probably won't move anyway, because my hair styling ain't all that tidy nohow.
But if you notice me packing & moving well off to your left with my wussie widdle rimfire stuff, kindly make a mental note to show the next guy, next time, just a little common courtesy. That next guy next time will not judge your manhood harshly for showing weakness.
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JohnBT
Member
"Which is a clever little insinuation that clearly the one daring to ask about the elephant in the room is the one who put it there."
Huh?
I'm neither clever, or little, or that other word. Something smells. It must be the elephant.
Huh?
I'm neither clever, or little, or that other word. Something smells. It must be the elephant.
WardenWolf
member
Whenever I get a new semi-auto rifle, I always assume it's going to send the brass somewhere inconsiderate until I know otherwise, and take precautions. I thought my Saiga .223 and PSL might be slinging the brass backwards at an angle so I put up an extra screen. I eventually found some of the brass and discovered it was actually going forwards at a 45-degree angle, but until I knew, I made damn sure I wasn't going to be "that guy".
Fact is, we've all experienced this, and almost invariably the errant brass is from an AR-15. Not speaking ill about the gun itself, but there often is a certain attitude of uncaring about others that goes along with having a lot of money. And those who can afford to shoot off countless rounds of expensive .223 in a single range session are often in that category. So the people around them are faced with a double problem: someone who doesn't care how their actions are affecting the other shooters, and someone who can afford to shoot a LOT. And these same people tend to buy high-end guns, such as an AR-15. So this pretty much explains why these people all seem to fit one particular pattern.
Stereotypical brass-flinging, neighbor-pinging range jerk:
Upper middle class guy shooting a ton of rounds out of an AR-15.
Fact is, we've all experienced this, and almost invariably the errant brass is from an AR-15. Not speaking ill about the gun itself, but there often is a certain attitude of uncaring about others that goes along with having a lot of money. And those who can afford to shoot off countless rounds of expensive .223 in a single range session are often in that category. So the people around them are faced with a double problem: someone who doesn't care how their actions are affecting the other shooters, and someone who can afford to shoot a LOT. And these same people tend to buy high-end guns, such as an AR-15. So this pretty much explains why these people all seem to fit one particular pattern.
Stereotypical brass-flinging, neighbor-pinging range jerk:
Upper middle class guy shooting a ton of rounds out of an AR-15.
Bubbles
Member
If I'm shooting something that I know is obnoxious about brass, like the RPD, I ask to be put as far to the right as possible.
If I don't want to get pelted I ask for the far left lane.
If I don't want to get pelted I ask for the far left lane.
JohnBT, he's not calling you clever, or little, or implying that you are an insinuation. (I COULD insert a definition of insinuation here, insinuating that you need to learn something, but I won't.) Rather, he is taking issue with your comment that pretty much says that Nushif is guilty of having the frothing rage, instead of merely wondering about its cause.
Rather, the whole point of this thread is to wonder about the rage that flying brass causes. Turns out, it's not the flying brass itself, but the quantity of it, the amount of time with which it is dispensed, the questionably deliberate aim some people seem to have with their brass ejection, and their lack of concern, or even awareness that it is happening, that makes people angry.
/end thread.
Rather, the whole point of this thread is to wonder about the rage that flying brass causes. Turns out, it's not the flying brass itself, but the quantity of it, the amount of time with which it is dispensed, the questionably deliberate aim some people seem to have with their brass ejection, and their lack of concern, or even awareness that it is happening, that makes people angry.
/end thread.
I once sat next to 4 AR shooters, and none of them reloaded. Sure I got pelted a few times, but I had absolutely no problems sweeping up the hundreds of pieces of brass they left for me. All brand new out of the box. I debated snagging the boxes out of the trash cans, but my pride stepped in on that one... lol.Why would I hate flying brass when so much of it ends up at my house? Thanks non reloaders.
Today's range story re: brass.
Guy and his young son are shooting a .22 to my left. Guy says if the brass starts to bother me, he could move. I told him to not worry about it, and it's not something I would ever complain about. Guy and kid continue to have a good day, and I get hit maybe a handful of times.
Next people that show up on the bench to my left--guy and wife older couple. Shooting an AR-15 that seemed to send every piece onto my bench. Wife comments that all the brass is hitting me, and they make a makeshift "deflector". I mentioned it wasn't necessary, and it didn't bother me, but at least I did think it was a nice gesture.
Bottom line: brass doesn't bother me. But if you're the kind of guy who's going to dump 30-60rnds in my lap in rapid succession, I'm going to take a break away from the bench...
When I am at a public range I get pelted from time to time -- I don't care.
Nor do I put much consideration as to where my brass is going.
It's part of shooting.
I've seen some people complain that another individuals "guns are too loud".
I would have told them to sell their guns and take up golf instead.
Dueling1911s
Member
i'm the guy at the range shooting a les baer and then peeks over the stall and asks "you gonna keep that brass?"
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