why unfluted cylinders?

mcb - about that inertia - would that affect single action only revolvers or just doubles when fired "double"? I'm curious as my Single Six is .22LR fluted and .22 Mag unfluted, while my GP-100 (.357) is fluted. :uhoh: :confused:
 
Mauser lover said:
You could do it with one of these:

[/URL]

if you had a (manual) horizontal mill. It’s not all that specialized, I didn’t realize it wasn’t an equal radius in both dimensions until I started looking. I’m thinking that since everyone is using CNC, ball-nose end mills might still be more economic. Except that you can CNC a horizontal mill too. Does anyone who can tell the difference have a modern (recently produced) revolver? I don’t.
Click to expand...
That is the type of cutter used for flutes. It's extremely obvious when they're cut with a ball mill. It's ugly.
 
JTHunter said:
mcb - about that inertia - would that affect single action only revolvers or just doubles when fired "double"? I'm curious as my Single Six is .22LR fluted and .22 Mag unfluted, while my GP-100 (.357) is fluted. :uhoh: :confused:
Click to expand...
It would come to play in a single action also if you're trying to shoot fast, especially if your are fanning the hammer or if you're aggressively fast cocking the hammer to shoot fast. Cowboy action shooters see similar wear issues and problems as IDPA/USPSA shooters do in worn pawls and stars, and peened cylinder stops and stop notches.
 
mcb said:
I am always amazed how much attention and conversation flutes or lack there of generates. Being an engineer I wanted to illustrate my earlier point that flutes are a good thing for those of us shooting a lot of fast double action shooting. It's going to get technical, you've been warned!

View attachment 1167932

This above CAD model is based on a S&W N-frame 44 Magnum cylinder. The outside diameter, length, and chambers are correct. Obviously smaller features like the star/extractor, stop notches, etc have been left out for expediency. The unfluted cylinder on the left weighs .212 lb (3.39 oz), and the fluted cylinder on the right weighs .196 lb (3.13 oz) that is only a ~1/4 oz reduction in weight, or 7.6% decrease. Not very much for the amount of machining at first blush, but as far as the pawl and cylinder stop are concerned the torque required to accelerate and decelerate the cylinder between double action shots is proportional to the mass moment of inertia of the cylinder and that has change a fair bit more.

For a linear system the classic equation F = m a (Force = mass times acceleration) holds true. The force is proportional to the mass and acceleration. For a rotational system that same equation looks like T = I alpha (Torque = mass moment of inertia times angular acceleration) Without going into the complexity of mass moment of inertial and how it is calculated, understand that the farther from the axis of rotation a bit of mass is the greater it contributes to the mass moment of inertia. This relationship is by the radius squared so a given bit of mass that is twice as far from the axis of rotation contributes four times at much to the mass moment of inertia of the whole.

So letting the CAD program do all the nasty math, the mass moment of inertia of the unfluted cylinder is .0874 lb-in^2 but the fluted cylinder is .0767 lb-in^2. So the flutes only reduce the mass by ~7.6% but that results in a 12.2% reduction in mass moment of inertia, since all that mass removed was near the outside diameter (as far from the axis of rotation as possible) of the cylinder. So for a given speed of shooting the flutes are reducing the force on the pawl and cylinder stop by 12.2 % If that is fast double action such as in USPSA or IDPA then after several thousands of rounds that difference can be seen in the amount of wear and tear on those parts and the features they interact with.

-rambling
Click to expand...
Wait! Math! Nobody told me there was going to be math. I studied, really I did, but the dog ate my homework.

Oh...sorry...flashback.
 
Flutes just make it more difficult to clean the carbon off the sides of the cylinder.

S&W put an under lug to add weight, then fluted the cylinders to reduce weight. More weight the merrier with a 44 Mag.

4oiCm5W.jpg



Still had to get into those flutes to wipe out bullet lube and powder fouling. Flutes, meh.

8ZjrokG.jpg
 
I actually really like an unfluted Colt SAA. One of my favorite magazine guns was John Taffin's Colt .41Spl built by Hamilton Bowen. Also really like the Alaska Pipeline model. I have plans to build at least one with a custom unfluted cylinder.
 
Cutting away metal takes time and tooling, leaving it there costs nothing.

That said, they will put heavy under lugs to add weight and flute the cylinder to remove it…

While machining metal away can lead to stress risers, the people that are saying, that’s not where they fail, are often correct.

BE7308AF-6A81-4F9E-9029-A226AD06D018.jpeg 24A51D76-B858-43DD-B51A-3BFDFBB39D8F.jpeg 41099A10-E211-42D2-BD52-5DB1521057CA.jpeg D6459C5C-F4B8-4BB4-AB89-E8F4D1E8082A.jpeg

And without flutes, they don’t magically get better.

259191C2-443E-4029-9469-33D25A80CC75.jpeg
 
jmorris said:
Cutting away metal takes time and tooling, leaving it there costs nothing.

That said, they will put heavy under lugs to add weight and flute the cylinder to remove it…

While machining metal away can lead to stress risers, the people that are saying, that’s not where they fail, are often correct.

View attachment 1168480View attachment 1168481View attachment 1168482View attachment 1168483

And without flutes, they don’t magically get better.

View attachment 1168484
Click to expand...
please what pachmyer grip model # is on that sp101, please.
 
Alright, how about LONG flutes.

1693070587762.png

An economy measure, using up cylinders left on hand when the 1878 Double Action Frontier was discontinued.
Just cut bolt notches and savings are made.

1693070874294.png
 
Curiouser and curiouser
A post on the S&W board shows a LAPD revolver with “beefed up cylinder“. Still fluted, maybe shallower flutes.

LAPD Model 14-1

These pistols are occasionally discussed on this forum and I thought it would be interesting to see one. This one was issued to a friend of mine on Oct 29, 1962. He carried it until he retired in 1982
smith-wessonforum.com
 
Jim Watson said:
Curiouser and curiouser
A post on the S&W board shows a LAPD revolver with “beefed up cylinder“. Still fluted, maybe shallower flutes.

LAPD Model 14-1

These pistols are occasionally discussed on this forum and I thought it would be interesting to see one. This one was issued to a friend of mine on Oct 29, 1962. He carried it until he retired in 1982
smith-wessonforum.com
Click to expand...
Interesting, never heard of that before. Don't know why a 14 would need one either. Curious to see if they measure it.
 
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