Why you should continue to buy ammo

[CZ223]

I have heard a lot of talk about how the shortage will end as soon as people stop hoarding ammo. I have also heard others say you should have stocked up before the shortage and been prepared. These two statements are, for the most part, counter intuitive. If you shoot much at all you should stock up for future shortages on ammo, or reloading components, preferably both. The other reason you should continue to buy now is, and I have said it before, it isn't getting any cheaper and prices are NEVER going back to pre-panic pricing,period. Also, ammo is a commodity and, like any other commodity, you should take advantage and buy it cheap and sell it high. That is what makes any economy go round and round. I took approximately 6000 rounds of 22lr to a local gun show yesterday and turned it into $600, I had about $350 invested, which I reinvested in Mag-pull 30 round mags and other stuff which will go up in price the next time this happens. By the way I walked around with it in a back pack with a sign on it for an hour or two selling it below what any of the dealers were selling it for then sold the remainder to the dealer with the lowest price. I know some of you will call me a scalper but I prefer to think of myself as a commodities trader.

 

[Warp]

I pretty noticeably disagree with your statement that buying commodities low and selling them high is what makes any economy go round.

 

[wgaynor]

Well you certainly don't buy it expensive and sell it cheap.

 

[celem]

CZ223 - while, on a personal level, I abhor what you and other scalpers are doing, I simultaneously agree that ammo is a commodity no different than any other consumable in the free market. I also agree that prices are unlikely to ever return to pre-panic pricing. Those of you that are of my vintage may remember the sugar shortages of 1980-81. Prices skyrocketed but when the panic was over they never fell back to pre-panic prices.

 

[CZ223]

Warp

Think about it. Any time you go into any store and buy anything that is exactly what is happening. The store buys it at one price and sells it to you at a higher price. When someone buys a house at one price and turns around and sells it for more that is exactly what is happening. If you invest in gold or silver and sell it at a higher price, that is what is happening. If you think I am bad, think about this the next time you put a dollar or more into a machine, or buy it at a convenience store, for a bottle of water or a soda. You can buy a case of water for about 4 bucks. Think about it.

 

[Warp]

Think about it. Any time you go into any store and buy anything that is exactly what is happening. The store buys it at one price and sells it to you at a higher price. When someone buys a house at one price and turns around and sells it for more that is exactly what is happening. If you invest in gold or silver and sell it at a higher price, that is what is happening. If you think I am bad, think about this the next time you put a dollar or more into a machine, or buy it at a convenience store, for a bottle of water or a soda. You can buy a case of water for about 4 bucks. Think about it.

Production is what makes an economy go round.

 

[22-rimfire]

People like to call loaded ammunition a "commodity" because it's a consummable, but it's not a commodity. The components that make up the construction of ammunition are commodities such as copper, lead, and so forth. Nobody calls computers, TV sets, fishing reels, wiring, pipes commodities. They are manufactured items. Manufactured items are generally produced and sold with a mark up to distributors or retailers, the same as ammunition.

What you did at the gun show is called retailing or re-sale.

I don't believe ammunition prices are likely to come down to pre-2012 panic levels. So I would suggest you just shop for your ammunition the same as you do a TV or Car and make your decisons based on your needs or wants.

 

[MCgunner]

Buy it cheap? Where?

Armscor Prec 22 Long Rifle 40 grn SP 5000 rd/case - $649.99 - via Slickguns.com [Ammo Supply Warehouse] $0.13/rd $649.99 In Stock 4m ago Slickguns.com
Aguila High Velocity .22 Long Riffle 40gr SP 50 Rnds - $6.95 - via Slickguns.com [Rare Ammo] $0.14/rd $6.95 In Stock 4m ago Slickguns.com
22 LR - 40 gr LRN - Federal AutoMatch Target - 325 Rounds $0.20/rd $65.00 176 3m ago Lucky Gunner
22 LR - 36 gr LHP - Remington - Cyclone - 500 Rounds $0.20/rd $99.00 78 3m ago Lucky Gunner
22 LR - 36 gr CPHP - Federal Champion - 525 Rounds $0.21/rd $110.00 135 3m ago Lucky Gunner
22 LR - 40 gr LFN - Eley Edge - 50 Rounds $0.34/rd $17.00 166 3m ago Lucky Gunner

 

[Queen_of_Thunder]

CZ223 - while, on a personal level, I abhor what you and other scalpers are doing, I simultaneously agree that ammo is a commodity no different than any other consumable in the free market. I also agree that prices are unlikely to ever return to pre-panic pricing. Those of you that are of my vintage may remember the sugar shortages of 1980-81. Prices skyrocketed but when the panic was over they never fell back to pre-panic prices.

Now why are you upset? He put more supply into the market and at a price below the current market price of 22lr. For this action you call him a derogatory name. At what point do you wake up. All he did was sell some ammo to better position himself and for this you call him names. I would highly suggest that you do the same because things can get worse over the next few years and they most likely will.


Now to WARP's statement.

Production is only one side of the coin. Production is a waste of time,money and resources if there is no one buying the product at a price point that allows production to be profitable.

 

[TanklessPro]

Everyone who sells makes a profit, unless they are desperate. If you don't like the price then don't buy it. I have a friend that lost his job a little over a year ago. With the economy in the shape it is in, he struggled to find work. The shortage and panic has allowed him to put food on the table for his family. I have actually sold some of my 22 to him so he could do the work to turn a profit. All in all he is doing pretty well.
Shooting is a hobby for most people. If you did not prepare then the blame is on you.(see signature below)Don't be mad at people because they are making a profit.

 

[Queen_of_Thunder]

People like to call loaded ammunition a "commodity" because it's a consummable, but it's not a commodity. The components that make up the construction of ammunition are commodities such as copper, lead, and so forth. Nobody calls computers, TV sets, fishing reels, wiring, pipes commodities. They are manufactured items. Manufactured items are generally produced and sold with a mark up to distributors or retailers, the same as ammunition.

What you did at the gun show is called retailing or re-sale.

I don't believe ammunition prices are likely to come down to pre-2012 panic levels. So I would suggest you just shop for your ammunition the same as you do a TV or Car and make your decisons based on your needs or wants.

I'll disagree here. 22lr ammo not only is a commodity but you can go further and place it in the same catagory as a Bitcoin. An alternative currency.

 

[Warp]

I wouldn't call it an alternative currently. A barter item at best, but really just something of value you can sell for currency if need be.

You won't be going to Kroger and buying your groceries with a bitcoin or a box of .22lr. You might sell those items (for currency), and then take the currency to Kroger, though

 

[Agsalaska]

CZ223 - while, on a personal level, I abhor what you and other scalpers are doing, I simultaneously agree that ammo is a commodity no different than any other consumable in the free market. I also agree that prices are unlikely to ever return to pre-panic pricing. Those of you that are of my vintage may remember the sugar shortages of 1980-81. Prices skyrocketed but when the panic was over they never fell back to pre-panic prices.

There is nothing at all wrong with what they are doing. They are actually serving an important function. They are providing inventory to the market.

 

[CZ223]

22rimfire

From Wikipedia:In economics, a commodity is a marketable item produced to satisfy wants or needs.[1] Economic commodities comprise goods and services.

Warp, production of goods and services is only one aspect of what makes up an economy. The sale of those goods or services is another part. After all I suspect that wherever you work and whatever you produce you expect to be paid for. I am a cabinet maker. I buy materials, turn them into cabinets, and install them in peoples houses. For this I am paid and whatever is left over after expenses such as rent on my shop, cost of material, labor etc. is called profit. I take that money and spend it on bread at the grocery store and other things that I need or want and the people who produce those goods, market those goods and sell those goods all get paid. Money and profit is what keeps the economy going round and round, like it or not. When I buy ammo and sell it at a profit I am providing the service of convenience much like the convenience store that sells you the soda for a $1.50 when you can go to a grocery store and buy a 24 pack for $6 or $7. I stand in line at zero dark thirty so you don't have to.

 

[22-rimfire]

I'll trade you a bulk pack of 22LR cartridges for that knife. You need 22 ammo and I need knife. Barter.... yep. Alternative currency may be stretching it a bit. But call it what you like.

CZ223, it's mostly semantics. In a general sense, everything including your cabinets are a commodity, but I view commodities as more basic items (like steel) or what items are used to manufacture other stuff.

 

[Queen_of_Thunder]

I wouldn't call it an alternative currently. A barter item at best, but really just something of value you can sell for currency if need be.

You won't be going to Kroger and buying your groceries with a bitcoin or a box of .22lr. You might sell those items (for currency), and then take the currency to Kroger, though

For the most part I'll agree but in certain circles the Bitcion is used just like US money as is 22lr. Both carry a monetary value that can be used to acquire goods from others willing to accept these two alternative currencys. Whatever you want to call it it's still an exchage of value for something else of value.

 

[celem]

Now why are you upset? He put more supply into the market and at a price below the current market price of 22lr. For this action you call him a derogatory name. At what point do you wake up. All he did was sell some ammo to better position himself and for this you call him names. I would highly suggest that you do the same because things can get worse over the next few years and they most likely will.

Now, now - I used the term scalper only in the context of high prices being unpleasant, because I, like everybody else, prefer to pay the lowest price possible and the panic is creating a temporary (hopefully) peak. I said that I simultaneously agree with him, which I do. Ammo IS a commodity in the free market and he is entitled to make a profit. The word "scalper" is only derogatory if you perceive as so. Some would call it simply being entropronurial.

By the way, production does not drive the economy - consumption does.

 

[Agsalaska]

Just to clarify and hopefully not to derail the thread, ammunition is a manufactured good. Manufactured goods are also commodity goods. All goods are classified as some type of commodity by theorists. But are not considered commodities on the exchanges and in open trade. Different definition. So you are both right.

 

[Agsalaska]

By the way, production does not drive the economy - consumption does.

I was wondering if anyone was going to point that out.

 

[22-rimfire]

Queen, he is not entitled to make a profit whether it be goods or services. Entitlements now huh?

Consumption.... yep. Not many farmers would survive very long if nobody used the products they produced which in most cases are commodities.

But back to ammunition.... I have no problem with considering ammunition a commodity. I just like to pick.

 

[W L Johnson]

Consumption is like water, it is necessary for life but too much can drown you.

 

[we are not amused]

For better or worse, I had bought 2500 hundred rounds of .22lr just before the Newtown shootings. I have given away 1,000 rounds to my nephews, and have shot about 1500 rounds. This leaves me with about 1000 rounds from several partial bricks and bulk packs. I refuse to pay $60 a brick for .22lr.
And I feel quite a bit of contempt for "scalpers" who hang out at Wal-mart, Academy Sports, and other outlets who buy up ever bit of supply and then sell at outrageous prices.

Shame on them!

 

[FinnComm]

I took approximately 6000 rounds of 22lr to a local gun show yesterday and turned it into $600

Yup, well done.You exploited your brothers who share this wonderful shooting hobby. Yeah, nice one. There's nothing wrong with making money, but when it's off the backs of other shooters, it sort of leaves a bad taste in my mouth.....

 

[CZ223]

22rimfire

LOL I don't believe in entitlements either. I actually took the ammo to the show hoping to trade it for a gun I wanted or something I could use. It turned out that people would rather buy it. As to whether ammo is currency or merely a barter item I would say tomato, tomahto. Over the centuries everything from spices to precious metals have been used as currency. No I don't think I could walk into a supermarket and spend a box of 22 to buy a loaf of bread, at least not today. If the economy ever collapses, i would rather have a box of ammo than a fist full of gold or silver coins. I'll bet I could buy bread with it then.

 

[22-rimfire]

I vote to make 22LR ammunition part of the International Commodity's Exchange or whatever exchange you like. You know... that would certainly eliminate the pricing problem... floating prices like gasoline.

I don't like scalpers. But on the other hand scaplers provide a service. I need tickets for a concert or football game, they're available for a price. CZ223, I have no problem with what you did. Less expensive stuff is easier to move at a "show". It still amazes me the prices paid for Colt Pythons and Diamondbacks. How many people have a couple thousand $ lying around just to get that shiny Python? I consider it a pretty exclusive market where as a selling 22 shells is pretty non exclusive even it they are $50 per bulk pack (or about double Walmart's retail pricing).