Price gouging vs hoarding

[justice06rr]

Evan, I'll answer that question and put myself on the burner.

I've only gotten into firearms in late 2010 when I obtained my CCW after graduating college. then starting a small business while firearms was a casual (but very important) hobby. Some of those same people in my shoes were not around firearms during the Clinton ban; I was in high school at the time period. We did not expect or much less know of such panic induced by violent events in the past, well because we were not into guns to begin with. Plain and simple.

Now there are probably others who just procrastinated and didn't prepare for such a panic and shortage that we are experiencing now. Combine all those factors and you get the lack of supply that we see at the present.

 

[PGT]

Recon Marine here, granted we don't fall under SOCOM so our funding isn't nearly that of SEALs or ODAs but 5k a week is a bit much. There's actually a ton of other things that go on during missions that don't involve shooting a gun that people need to be prepared for.

Yes....I think that number is for the teams that are in a training rotation and not downrange. The guys downrange are keeping their skills sharp in real life, not on a range.

 

[MachIVshooter]

It makes sense to stock up when prices are low and buy in bulk.

Prepping for the zombie apocalypse.
Prepping for the Chicken Little apocalypse. What JOY!
Prepping for economic meltdown.
Prepping for ant-gun, anti-2A government.

Just like they do with canned goods, toilet paper, beans and rice.

They do it because they have the will, the drive, the finances and live in a free country that, for the time being, allows it's citizens to exercise their free choice and will to spend their money on things they see fit.

People who whine about having to pay high prices now are probably those people fist fighting over the last tin of green beans and the last loaf of bread on the shelves of the supermarket after a natural disaster hits.

Remember the story of the Ant and the Grasshopper.

She's halfway around the world and has a better understanding than most here.

Most in this country have disposable income. How much varies wildly, but chances are, if you're a gun owner who's affected by this shortage, it means you shoot recreationally, and you're not stretching every penny just to survive. It also means that if you'd dialed back on other discretionary spending and bought extra mags and ammo when prices were lower, you'd be one of us just shaking our heads rather than one of those who is frantically searching local stores and online just to have a couple 30 round AR mags and a few boxes of ammo.

The writing has been on the wall, we all knew this was coming. The only thing we didn't know for certain is what the catalyst would be. Not stocking up over the last 4 years is akin to looking at your "distance to empty" indicator reading 37 miles while you decide to drive past the "last gas station for 72 miles", thinking it's just hype, there's sure to be another between here and there.

 

[dragon813gt]

I
So for all of you that do not reload, tough luck, we have been saying for years that you should get into reloading, not just for the cost savings, but so you can have ammo when times get rough like now.

Good luck and I hope you do get into reloading.
Jim

Agree with everything except hoping for others to get into reloading. Please stay hand to mouth so there is only a run on factory ammo and not components. Something is off when Powder Valley sells out their entire inventory in a week. New reloaders aren't going to order hundreds of pounds of powder and tens of thousands of primers for their first order. That run is solely caused by reloaders buying way more than they will use in a timely manner.

And I can't be mad at most of them because we've gone through shortages before. It's the guys buying pallets of primers when they have no reloading equipment that bothers me. I know a guy that still has his pallets of primers from the last run. He still hasn't reloaded a single round yet he keeps buying components. I just don't get that mentality.

I'm fully stocked and patiently waiting this one out. I did place a large order as soon as I heard about the shooting. But it was an order I was going to place in a few weeks anyway. It just get bumped up as I saw this one coming.




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[larryh1108]

I know a guy that still has his pallets of primers from the last run. He still hasn't reloaded a single round yet he keeps buying components. I just don't get that mentality.

Perfect example of the hoarding mentioned when I started this thread.

New reloaders aren't going to order hundreds of pounds of powder and tens of thousands of primers for their first order. That run is solely caused by reloaders buying way more than they will use in a timely manner.

And this is why I believe that our community is what fuels these shortages. People who shoot a lot and new members trying to get stocked up aside, I truly believe that those who should know better hoard which dries up the pipeline and raises prices for everybody else.

I don't reload yet but I started a fund to get into it before this all came about. I don't have the funds to order 5k rounds of any caliber ammo. I buy a box or two here and there to get to where I am now. Now I don't want to go to the range because I can't restock my reserves. I like to have enough on hand "just because". However, my "enough" is no where near what others like to have but that is fine. To each, his own, but the hoarders make is worse for everybody and that takes the recreation out of our sport until it settles down in the next year.

I had Monday off due to MLK day and I wanted to go to the range but decided not to because I could not replace what I would shoot (about 300 rounds total). That is not right and we can't blame only Obama for that. I blame hoarders.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Perfect example of the hoarding mentioned when I started this thread................... Now I don't want to go to the range because I can't restock my reserves.

Do you see the contradiction? You're pissed at hoarders because you didn't stock enough to keep shooting during a dry spell without buying more. You should actually be grateful, because most of us "hoarders" were well stocked prior to the rush, and are not the ones buying up everything now. I've bought only about 1,000 rounds of .22 LR and maybe 300 rounds of 9mm and .45 since this started. I wouldn't even have bought the .22 ammo, except I discovered one of my favorite rifles won't shoot the stuff I already had in quantity worth a poop.

You need to distinguish between people who stocked up before hand and the "panic hoarders". It's the latter category you should direct your anger at, people who only began hoarding after the shortage started. Those who did before are not contributing to the shortages now; Those of us who have enough are not going to buy more at inflated prices. We'll wait it out.

 

[Trent]

I had Monday off due to MLK day and I wanted to go to the range but decided not to because I could not replace what I would shoot (about 300 rounds total). That is not right and we can't blame only Obama for that. I blame hoarders.

Really?

Why would my hoarding of guns & ammo over the last 20 years be AT ALL to blame for you not being able to shoot today?

Now that it's happened (yet again..), I don't NEED to go out and buy anything.

Because, I was WELL PREPARED for this.

If you're going to place any blame here, it needs to be SQUARELY on the millions of shooters who were too busy with their overly important selves, to read the tea leaves and stock up on things when they were in good supply.

Hell, just a couple of months ago people would make fun of me for what I was stocking up on.

Just be glad it's not food. Again, I'm prepared for that eventuality, MOST people are not.

You guys want to take something from all this that's worthwhile? Start buying a few extra cans of food each time you go shopping. Get a solid plan on how to get water. Get first aid skills, and tools. Learn to fish. Lean to garden. Learn to reload. Etc.

Fact is, you don't KNOW when something is suddenly going to be in short supply. Might as well have a little bit extra put up just in case it ever IS.

 

[Trent]

(In short, HOARDERS and PREPPERS are not the people you see running out NOW to buy things. Those people, well, they were already sitting pat.)

 

[MachIVshooter]

You guys want to take something from all this that's worthwhile? Start buying a few extra cans of food each time you go shopping. Get a solid plan on how to get water. Get first aid skills, and tools. Learn to fish. Lean to garden. Learn to reload. Etc.

I've discovered that you just can't bring most people around to that way of thinking until they suffer the consequences of being caught unprepared (and sometimes not even then). I've tried with my own family members, but I'm still the only one with enough of everything on hand to hold out more than a week or two if everything falls apart.

I personally will not be without at least 6 months worth of supplies to live in relative comfort under most foreseeable conditions (economic collapse, natural disaster, etc.)

Prepping is a mentality most don't have, and a commitment even fewer are willing to make. Unfortunate, IMO.

 

[silicosys4]

Straight up, Trent.
The people responsible for the OP's woes are NOT the "hoarders" and "preppers" who by nature would be prepared by now.
They are unprepared ninnies like the OP who waited until getting pie'd in the face before they read the writing on the wall.

And OP...who the hell are you, but the next "hoarder" looking to "hoard" that just can't get their hands on what they want to "hoard"?

 

[Ms_Dragon]

Thank you for your nice comment MachIVshooter.

Yes, I do get it.

 

[Trent]

Most people don't prep until they've been bit in the ass once.

America just got bit in the ass (AGAIN!)

My point was, don't DIMINISH the lesson and think this is ONLY about guns and bullets and magazines.

There are PLENTY of things you take for granted which could disappear in a New York Minute.

We ran across this awhile back in my day job with hard drives and memory. (Hard drives when Thailand got flooded, memory when the earthquake shattered Japan).

THAT was about the time I started transitioning from a "pretty normal fellow" to a "hard core prepper".

I have spares of my SPARES at work now.

And at home.

 

[ILikeLead]

why would the guy like me who has been gathering ammo for the last several years be mad at today's prices? I just sit back shake my head and sell another box to the next guy for whatever he'll pay for it. As another poster mentioned, we're not talking about survival here! It could just as easily be food. (In which case I would not sell...)

Be prepared.

 

[EBK]

I am upset simply because prior to all of this I was unable to "prepare for it". Between bills and just keeping the lights on and a roof over my head I was able to put back roughly 100 round of ammo per firearm. Had plans to purchase a 100 round drum for the AR however never had the extra funds.

Now that things have eased up with the bills and I have extra money there is nothing to be found....... anywhere. No primers or bullets, no ammo no spare parts I cant even get a six position buffer tube (just the tube). I was able to find exactly 1 pound of acurate No.5 pistol powder unfortunatly none of my reloading manuals have this powder listed for .45 acp. Its very frustrating.

 

[larryh1108]

And OP...who the hell are you, but the next "hoarder" looking to "hoard" that just can't get their hands on what they want to "hoard"?

It seems like reading is something people can't understand or is it comprehension. I have stated and right above your posts I used examples of hoarding to the detriment of the sport. Guys who hoard. Gathering over the years is not hoarding. Going out to buy a pallet of primers because of the latest fervor when they haven't touched the last pallet they bought in '08. That was used as an example, not guys who have been reloading for the last 20 years and have enough on hand until their kids die.

Read what is written instead of telling me how to prepare to eat or drink. Hoarders are the ones who buy up all they can even though they don't need it and will never shoot it in the next 10 years.

I am prepared enough for this. I am not short on ammo. I said I can't afford to go out and buy 5k rounds of anything (before the carnage) and bought one and two boxes at a time. Excuse me if that makes me stupid for not preparing. I have plenty of ammo if a real need arises. The range is like any other leisure activity, it is optional and a luxury so get off your high horses and learn how to read, comprehend and then digest what is written without getting bent out of shape for something that wasn't directed at you. However, if you have 30k rounds of ammo on hand and went out and bought 20k more and you shoot 2k rounds a year then yeah, this is meant for you. If you are prepared for something like this and did not go out and buy 20k rounds because you planned ahead, this is not for you either. Some people get defensive and then attack when they have no comprehension of what is being said. Yeah, I'm not happy that I cant go to the range because hoarders drove the price up and dried up the supply. Hoarders, not responsible people who bought ahead, have ample supplies on hand and did not rush to the stores when the panic hit. You guys did a good job. I wish I had the cash to do the same. Some people just have their priorities messed up. Some people put food ahead of range ammo. Sucks to be us!

 

[MachIVshooter]

I cant even get a six position buffer tube (just the tube)

Both commercial and milspec UTG pro 6 pos. tubes available on Amazon right now. Good quality tubes, I have 3 of them. I use commercials, though, because UTG (like most) uses 6061 aluminum for both commercial and mil spec, so I want the thicker one. You'll pay a lot more than $22 for a 7075 tube.

 

[David E]

Are the people crying loudest about price gouging/ammo shortage the ones who already have more than enough ammo than they'll shoot in 10 years?

No. The people crying the loudest are folks like, well, you that forgot to buy enough of their own, so they point at others and cry: "They can't shoot that much in ten years! Why do they have so much and I have so little? It's not fair!!"

They have "so much" because they bought it, probably a little here and there along the way to build up their stores. Whilst the whiners did not.

Do the people who are the most angry the ones who are sitting on 10,000, 20,000 and/or 30,000 rounds of ammo now but are upset they can't get more or get it at a fair price?

No. It's the guy that swings by Walmart or the LGS to pick up a couple boxes of ammo on their way out to the range. If he didn't buy some, he'd have nothing to shoot. Now, the shelves are bare, he has nothing to shoot, so he points at others complaining that they're hoarding. All they did was be smart about it. Especially in light of the ammo shortage that began on election day in 2008.

If you have 20,000 rounds of ammo do you think you are hoarding ammo?

No, but I'm kicking myself for not having bought a bit more over the years.

I know what my gut says. Hoarding is behind this shortage.

Your gut is wrong.

 

[Lex Luthier]

If you were smart, the recent events only confirm human nature and won't affect you, except of course when all the newbies sell all this stuff for cheap later when they realize their money never bought effectiveness, just immediate gratification. Idiots.

 

[Ashcons]

In non-volatile times, when suppliers can keep up with demand, people spiking demand isn't going to hurt anything. In fact, they could help by raising production volumes and potentially decreasing costs for everyone. Aside from the people on TV with houses full of totally random crap and garbage with no use, I don't like the word, "Hoarder." It's used liberally to apply to people who are preparing for an event risk that you aren't.

My pantry's full of canned food and dry goods that go beyond what my family needs for a week - we could probably eat for a couple months on the extras we have. A lot of US consumers would consider that food hoarding because they don't see a need for it. Maybe your buddy thinks that a massive ammo tax proposal is in the pipeline and he considers it prudent to stock up on components as he wants to start reloading anyway (I have no idea what he's thinking).

Point is, it's his deal to do what he wants with his money. Call it hoarding if it makes you feel better about it, I guess. That doesn't do anything to help you out, though.

After Obama's first election win, I remember not being able to find 9mm ammo anywhere (except for one lucky trip to WM while driving across the country - fresh restock). Over the past 3.5 years or so, I bought 50 - 100 round packs here and there by the time THIS panic hit, I had "hoarded" enough rounds to last me till it passes. I was lucky enough to pick up some other things that are very difficult to find on the market right now without paying double, triple, or higher than MSRP from pre-Newtown days.

I call it prioritizing important purchases

 

[larryh1108]

No. The people crying the loudest are folks like, well, you that forgot to buy enough of their own, so they point at others and cry: "They can't shoot that much in ten years! Why do they have so much and I have so little? It's not fair!!"

They have "so much" because they bought it, probably a little here and there along the way to build up their stores. Whilst the whiners did not.

Wow, another guy who has trouble comprehending. That's ok. I've seen it quite a bit now. I guess reading the post 2 above yours is too much of a task before you get all sarcastic and condescending. Fine. If the shoe fits you then wear it well.

I'll type real slow so guys like you can actually read it and maybe comprehend it but I'm not holding my breath.

Hoarders aren't guys who accumulated 10 years worth of ammo over the years. Hoarders are guys who have more than they'll ever need, hear about a panic or see an event triggering it and then go out and buy a lot more because they can. Not because they need it but because they have to have it. Guys who are well prepared from years of buying or reloading and wait this shortage out are not hoarders. Simple. Got it? Should I type in all caps so you can read it easier?

 

[dragon813gt]

I think some fail to realize that not everyone had the means to prepare for this. A lot of working folks are living paycheck to paycheck and all of their income goes to food and utilities. Discretionary purchases such as ammo are on an inconsistent basis and it's usually small purchases. This is who the shortage hurts right now. Along with people just getting into the hobby.

You can't blame any particular type of person or event for the current situation. It's been a perfect storm of events that whipped everyone into a frenzy. No need to have any anger that you can't purchase what you want to. I have no need for an AR but was finally considering buying one. I will be holding off on that until prices fall back to normal levels. Just wait it out and cut back on your shooting if need be. There are plenty of other enjoyable things to do in life.


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[silicosys4]

OP.
Find a better job. Increase your skillset. Do oddjobs. Make more money. Buy guns who's ammo you can afford. Don't buy guns if you can't afford their ammo. Quit blaming other people who can do things you want to do, for your not being able to do things you want to do.

 

[oneounceload]

For a SOF guy, 5k rounds a week is the norm.

On whose money? Most of these "SOF" guys are video game commandos living in their momma's basement - maybe their video game count can make 5K a week......

 

[kimbershot]

i know guys who bought ammo by the pallet--but they also shoot machine guns. i downsized and shoot only 22lr and reloaded 45acp. have about 6k of 22lr. and enough stuff to do about 8k reloads. i am good to go until the next presidential election.

 

[larryh1108]

OP.
Find a better job. Increase your skillset. Do oddjobs. Make more money. Buy guns who's ammo you can afford. Don't buy guns if you can't afford their ammo. Quit blaming other people who can do things you want to do, for your not being able to do things you want to do.

Wow, why didn't I think of this. You are a genius! Thanks! You solved the problems of society in one, short paragraph.