Wild Bill Hickok

Status
Not open for further replies.
I used to be heavily into percussion revolvers and I rigged up a set of replica 36 Navies the way I had read Hicock carried them to test this very issue.
The "cavalry draw" works very well and quickly. I had thought it would be awkward, but it wasn't. Just took a bit of practice.
I love percussion revolvers...but I hated cleaning them.
:D
 
Couple of points....

RQRWJB:
We generally think of a "sash" as either a diagonal strip of cloth, or woman's apperal.
From "One Look" Dictionary source, "a band of material around the waist that strengthens a skirt or trousers". Although not so used now, I don't think it too improbable that 125 years ago, the term "sash" may have included that wide "duty belt" style of belt.

However, that Hickok did not use what we think of as holsters seems pretty established.

ACP230:
The Reverse Twist Cavalry draw is an interesting concept. From what I have been able to find, the revolver was used left handed, so the Cav holster was actually a cross draw design. The most useful strong side draw I've found is thus:
The down stroke pops the flap loose from the stud (no snaps in those days); the arm is then moved inside (between butt and belt) and the heel of the hand rotates and pulls the revolver upward. As the revolver comes into the palm of the hand, it is then drawn normally, and the muzzle never crosses one's body. Cocking occurs at one's option; I always waited until the muzzle was away from the ground, anyway.

I also note it works better seated, or asride a horse. Not surprizing to me.

[Chic Gaylord: I read Gaylord's book years ago. It was hilarious. What the late Mr. Gaylord lacked in knowledge, he made up for in sheer balderdash.]

Redneck2:
One wears long coats and long sleeves in desert areas to keep sun and dust off one's body and equipment. The tie was what any proper gentleman would wear in public, unless one was unsophisticated or a common laborer. Much as the mustach was required for an adult male in those days. The long hair was a fashion statement.

In general, I think the revolvers were posed for the picture. Carrying them in such manner would be awkward and prone to dropping. I think Mr. Hickok was rather proud of those revolvers and the ivory grips. If I recall correctly, he stayed with the .36 Navy Colts rather than change to cartridge guns because he understood how the Navy Colts worked. (Similar to why I prefer a S&W M27 to a Glock!)
 
pbman,
I normaly just tuck a gun behind my belt but forward and it is much more comforteble. I tried hard to find a holster to carry this way, but have had no luck.
Check out "Old West Reproductions" Rick Bachman can probably make whatever you need or think you need for an SA revolver. IIRC, he's done a lot of original research on holsters of the old west and many of his designs are replicas of the originals. Email him, he'll get back to you: "Rick Bachman" <[email protected]>

OT: I found a crossdraw holster Rick made for a S&W Mod 586/686 (which I didn't have) in a used leather bin in a gunshop a few years ago. I was so impressed with the quality of the leather, the design and craftsmanship that I bought it ($15 :rolleyes: ). Rick's name is in his logo, so I googled the name and found his website. It took a while but a nice 586-0 showed up and was a perfect fit. Like I needed a reason :rolleyes:
 
Thanks for the link riverdog. I do think the butt forward is best for sitting, no doubt thats one of the reasons hickok liked it as well.
 
As I understand alot of the 1851 Navys were converted to regular cartrige or there were conversions available? Also rumored that alot of the gunslingers kept them beacuse of their natural point of aim and well balance? I have never handled one so I don't know if any truth to that?
 
One more point just accured to me, modern fast draw people normally cock the gun in the holster, (with special steel plates and loads) but with a butt forward draw, you can cock the gun as you bring it across and up, it fits with the turning of the wrist. Possibly this is much faster if you don't want to cock the gun in the holster, and who does?

And i suspect he prefered the navy's, cause they were more reliable, than the early colts and/or he was more familer with them. Most of us prefer the guns we learned on, as opposed to the glocks.
 
Archie
Just one point.

Several Google searches turn up reports of
"pistols tucked into a red sash",
"richly embroidered red sash",
"a red sash tied around his waist".

If this means "duty belt" to you, well.....

How comfortable would it be to carry pistols tucked into a stiff leather belt all day? Loose enough to be comfortable would be too loose to hold the guns.
 
When was he killed? I think he continued to carry the cap and ball revolvers even after the advent of cartridge guns.
Yes, he kept them well after the advent of cartridge guns. Many people kept them just because they liked them. Also, many people out on the frontier kept them, some into the early 20th century, because they were easier to equip (you can easily mold your own bullets, and some can even make their own powder, barring that skill a few pounds of powder takes up far less space and weighs much less than the number of cartridges that equal the number of shots you get out of the powder).

As I understand alot of the 1851 Navys were converted to regular cartrige or there were conversions available? Also rumored that alot of the gunslingers kept them beacuse of their natural point of aim and well balance?
Many coversions were done, though often I think it had less to do with the desire to keep the basic gun people were used to than it did the fact that most people then were dirt poor. A gun may very well be the most expensive possession some of those people owned, and to replace them was no small thing. Thus, they paid far less than a new gun to have their old guns converted to the new technology.
 
Looking further into it, I find at the time of his death, Hickok was not carrying his Colts but a Smith & Wesson Old Model Army .32 rimfire.
 
Butt-forward, high-carry certainly lends itself when you are sitting at a poker table.

Most Wild West pistolfights were carried out at extremely short distances.
 
I tried Hickock carry at a costume party.. and whats wierd is its actually pretty comfortable. The wide sash holds the guns close to your body, covers most of the action and is suprisingly flexible, even with a big knife across your waist too.

I used a .36 Navy and a .44 army
 
even with a big knife across your waist too.

Thats one thing I wouldn't try. A big knife on your waste is IMO asking for trouble if you fall down--it might poke thru your gut. To me, any knife that is carried without a sheath (sp?) or at least is a closing knife is potentially dangerous to the user.
 
Just came from Buffalo Bill Cody Museum in Cody, Wy. They had Wild Bill's two ivory handled 1851 Navy Colt's on display. They appeared to have some type of silver coating over the steel. Also mentioned that he had several other guns, I remember the .32 rimfire someone mentioned above, but forget the others.
The '51 Colt does have a natural pointability to it, and flicking the wrist is helpful in cocking it.

Calamity Jane's '73 Colt was there. As well as a couple of pistols carried by Billy the Kid, think those were .38's but wasn't as interested in them as Wild Bill's and Jane's.
Incidentally they stated that Wild Bill's close friends said it was a good thing Wild Bill was dead when they buried Calamity Jane next to him, as he never would have stood for it if alive.
 
Hickok is also the guy who inspired Col. Rex Applegate who found a holograph letter Bill wrote to the editor explaining his technique, I raised my pistol to eye level, like pointing a finger, and fired.
Um, "holographed?"

I don't think so, BigG … the Colonel explained it to me about ten years back that he found the actual letter in a trunk in Deadwood, that he'd written it as a response to a letter requesting advice on how he had been so deadly accurate in his gunfighting exploits. Hickok replied as you state, but had never had a chance to send the letter.

The Colonel had been given a pretty neat assignment back in '42 by Bill Donovan who was Applegate's CO with the OSI (later the OSS). "Find out all you can about handgun fighting so we can improve our men's accuracy."

for an awesome Old west shootout, go see "Open Range"!
Roger that, Greyhound… a good one except that I don't think the Butler character played by Kim Coates, supposedly the real "killer" in Baxter's crew would just stand there smirking and let Charley Waite walk right up and shoot him between the eyes! (And we could've done without the "fanning" by Costner, too!!!)

A far better "Old West" shootout, in my never quite humble enough opinion, was the final confrontation in Unforgiven when Eastwood makes every shot count in the saloon against a superior force of numbers… and prevails.
 
I think "holograph" means actual longhand unless I had a brain fart, Dean. You can look it up.
 
More proof that Wild Bill was a cagey character, I was in Deadwood a few years ago & saw the actual hand of cards he was holding when he died( the aces & eights). They were displayed in at least three places. Holding 15 cards while playing poker may have contributed to him getting plugged.... :p
 
RQRWJB

I had always heard Hickok wore his guns in a "sash", also. However, the picture attached shows him wearing a wide leather belt.

I suppose it could be different eras of his life; or perhaps the term "sash" is not what we think. A red leather sash would be stretching it a bit, I think.

I don't like the butt forward arrangement, but I've been known to carry my sidearm in my waistband, sash or no sash.
 
You can rent, "Night of the Generals", starring Peter O'Toole and Omar Sharif and see the cavalry draw when the SS general played by O'Toole draws his Walther .32 and kills the military investigator played by Sharif when he tries to arrest him on the day that other generals tried to kill Hitler in his bunker.

It's an excellent film, with O'Toole playing a German general who kills women in several cities. He's a real nut case.

Lone Star
 
Re: Lone Star's observation, the German Army carried pistols in a cross draw position as per regulations, ie., butt forward on left hip.

Rex Applegate's WW2 training film emphesises point shooting at close distance and aimed shooting at longer range. The soldiers in the film always seemed to have their pistol at the ready, no fast draw if I remember correctly.
 
I recall reading a bio many years ago about either Hickok or Buffalo Bill killing a man at 75 yards with a handgun. I think it was Hickok.

Anybody know anything about that? Apparently it was not accident but an aimed shot.

Some of you geezers on the Board might remember the Wild Bill Hickok TV series. I think it starred Guy Madison, a Hollywood pretty boy, all decked out in duded up Western style cloths and I think a pair of .45 Colts. His sidekick was Andy Devine I think. I always felt sorry for Andy's horse because Andy appeared seriously overweight.
 
moa
Believe that was the fight over Bill's watch with a man named Tutt. It was a gunfight in the traditional sense, out in the street. Some say Tutt drew first, others that both men drew and fired at the same time. The range was 75 yds. Bill killed Tutt with one shot thru the heart.
 
There was a show on the History Channel called "Wild West Tech" recently. The host (I think David Carradine) tried to do that Hickock-stunt with a .36 1851 Colt Navy replica. He hit the wooden man-shaped target once, but about 10 inches left from the heart, 4 shots were missing, and nobody shot or aimed at him!

Interestingly, it seems to be an accurate show because they loaded the 6-shooter only with 5 as needed for security.
 
During the months that followed the Civil War, James Butler “Wild Bill†Hickok spent much of his time in Springfield, MO., where he supported himself by gambling. During July, 1865 he got into a dispute with another gambler named Dave Tutt. Tutt was a former Confederate while Hickok had been a Union Scout. Before long bad blood developed between the two and things became hot when Tutt proposed to humiliate Hickok by walking across the Plaza wearing a watch of Bill’s that he’d taken to satisfy an alleged gambling debt. Hickok told him he’d never make it if he tried.

According to George Ward Nichols, a former Union officer and now writer for “Harper’s New Monthly Magazine,†this is what happen. (I am quoting from an original copy of the article that I have before me, including Nichols’ convoluted spelling.)

Next day, about noon, Bill went down on the squar (sic). He had said that Dave Tutt shouldn’t pack that watch across the squar (sic) unless dead men could walk.

When Bill got onter (sic) the squar (sic) he found a crowd stanin (sic) in the corner of the street by which he entered the squar (sic), which is from the south, you know. In this crow’d (sic) he saw a lot of Tutt’s friends; some were cousins of his’n (sic), just back from the reb army; and they jeered him, and boasted that Dave was a-goin (sic) to pack that watch across the squar (sic) as promised.

Then Bill saw Tutt stanin (sic) near the court-house, which you remember is on the west side, so that the crowd was behind Bill.

Just then, Tutt, who was alone, started from the court-house and walked out into the squar (sic), and Bill moved away from the crowd toward the west side of the squar (sic). Bout fifteen paces brought them opposite to each other, and about fifty yards apart. Tutt then showed his pistol. Bill had kept a sharp eye on him, and before Tutt could pint (sic) it Bill had his’n (sic) out.

At that moment you could have heard a pin drop in that squar (sic). Both Tutt and Bill fired, but one discharge followed the other so quick that it’s hard to say which went off first. Tutt was a famous shot, but he missed this time; the ball from his pistol went over Bill’s head.

Hickok however, didn’t miss and Dave Tutt fell dead.

At a later time, Nichols was in Wild Bill’s room when he offered to demonstrate his shooting skills. Again I quote from Nichols’ account.

“I would like to see you shoot,†says Nichols.

“Would yer,†replied the scout, drawing his revolver; and approaching the window, he pointed to a letter O in a sign-board which was fixed to a stone-wall of a building on the other side of the way.

“That sign is more then fifty yards away. I will put these six balls into the inside of the circle, which isn’t bigger then a man’s heart.â€

In an off-hand way, and without sighting the pistol with his eye, he discharged the six shots of his revolver. I afterwards saw that all the bullets had entered the circle.

Nichols’ article soon made Wild Bill a celebrity known the world over. Other writers would claim the distance during the fight was 75 yards or even more, and at least one account of the “sign-shooting†incident says the istance was “over 100 yards.†The readers of this post may feel free to take their pick.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top