Will the market embrace?

[brnmuenchow]

The NRA Rifleman online has an article about the new Wilson's Combat new cartridge called the 7.62x40WT for 5.56NATO rifles as a new option and the only thing you have to do is get a different barrel. Claims to have better performance close to the 6.8SPC, better than the 7.62x39mm in fps, and lb-ft. of energy and more power obviously than the .223Rem./ 5.56NATO. By the ballistic chart given in the article it seems that in comparison to the 7.62x39mm on a good day it may on get about 130 more fps, and 142 lb-ft. more energy. Now it is only my opinion, but in my years there have been many new cartridges come to the market that have never really taken flight in the commercial markets, this may be another. No offense to anyone that is interested in getting one, but 1st: Wilson's Combat has never been known for budget priced anything, 2nd: Unless someone can claim and prove that this cartridge is capable of seriously out performing the effective and very AFFORDABLE 7.62x39mm and 5.56NATO/ .223Rem. I think we can write this one off with many of the others that never took flight. Comments are alway's interesting to read, plus someone may mention a cartridge that failed that I may have forgotten about.

 

[xfyrfiter]

Best thing about this round, uses same mag,bolt assy , only needs barrel change. All other parts are the same win in my book if the price gets as good as .223 or 7.62x39, or even a little higher. The BC is a lot better than .223 in 55.

 

[ISO1600]

sounds cool, but unless it gets a lot of support there is no way the price can get as good as .223 or similar.

 

[devinsdad]

To get beyond the realm of a designer cartrage (think 6.5, 6.8), the military would have to buy it.

 

[Mr_Pale_Horse]

Worst possible market to introduce a one-off AR rifle cartridge. Over sold market, sluggish economy, people will stick with what works in the short term, and the new kid on the block will hear the crickets.

 

[flakbait]

I new barrel still usually requires an new Upper receiver since most folks--myself included--have no idea how to change a barrel and its certainly not convenient to change barrels as opposed to change upper receiver groups. If you had to have a new upper for this round, the only true cost savings are in the magazines, bolts, bolt carriers. etc.

A new upper with this new barrel is still at least $400-500 just to fire this proprietary round. Since their is no factory ammunition except from Wilson Combat $$$, only handloaders and dedicated Wilson Combat fans would be interested. I think I will pass. Besides, I don't see any distinct advantage of this new round over the more readily available and accepted 6.8 mm SPC.

The lower muzzle velocity of this new round limits the range of this round over the 6.8 mm SPC which is at best a good inside 250 yard hunting cartridge. I don't think the terminal ballistics of a 30 caliber round are significantly different than a .277 caliber round which are both limited in powder capacity by the overall length of an AR magazine/chamber.

 

[Z-Michigan]

The Wilson cartridge is incredibly similar to the 300 AAC Blackout which has a 6-9 month lead to market. The Blackout uses all the stock parts except barrel as well. On paper the Wilson cartridge has slightly better ballistics, but only by a little. My money would be on the AAC Blackout even if the Wilson might have better performance. Who knows - all the non-military calibers for the AR are basically hobbyist calibers IMHO. That doesn't make them bad, just that they aren't soon going to be widely popular and competitively priced with similar sized military cartridges.

 

[68wj]

Link to Wilson's info page. http://www.wilsoncombat.com/762x40WT.htm

It doesn't look like factory 5.56 mags are exactly compatable either. Just like the 300 blackout users are finding, some loadings put the bullet onto the magazine ribs. That is why Wilson is selling Lancers that have had the rib shaved to clear the ogives. There are others doing the same with their PMags that have already bought into the BO.

So, you get an AR that hits harder than a .223 and maintains magazine capacity and ease of feeding. It is an improvement, but one that is going head on with several other options already on the market. How much of an improvement is up to the consumer to vote with their wallets.

The interesting thing is their comparison to 6.8 SPC. The 6.8 velocities that they list are lower than their own Wilson 6.8 ammo from a 16" barrel (2550 v/s 2700 fps).

 

[Sunray]

"...Will the market embrace?..." Not if a major ammo maker, die maker and firearm manufacturer produces it. Otherwise it's just another proprietory wildcat.

 

[earlthegoat2]

The big reason I like the niche AR calibers is that it makes the AR platform easier to use for sporting purposes. This 7.62x40 seems to be just the thing for hogs. The 6.8 is OK too but the 450 Bushy a little much for me.

 

[Vaarok]

Oversaturated market, second entry into the niche and SEVERAL months behind the frontrunner, and basically a wildcat of dubious utility to begin with.

 

[451 Detonics]

The Wilson cartridge is incredibly similar to the 300 AAC Blackout

Which is a copy of of the 300 Whisper...lol. People just keep adding a mm here and a mm there to the case length then claim they have designed a new cartridge. Yet when it comes down to ballistics they pretty much all mimic the original.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Which is a copy of of the 300 Whisper.

Yes indeed.... but the big thing the AAC Blackout seems to have going for it is support from other manufacturers, and promised affordable ammo from Remington. It may be almost the same cartridge as a previous one, but widespread support could (could, who knows) make all the difference in adoption.

 

[brnmuenchow]

That was really why I posted this, to be honest the first thing I thought of was the performance difference between it and the 6.8 SPC. I asked myself what possible advantage could it have over it, and really even the 6.8 SPC has not taken flight in military or comercial ( I have seen very few around). My cousin was in the market for a new AR rifle and found a lightly used 6.8 SPC and almost purchased it, luckily he stopped to investigate a little more into it and didn't feel comfortable with the cartridge's $, availability, or future. Even though I told him that it is a good cartridge and cool mabye to say you got one but he just was not comfortable pursuing it. People will go with what they know works and are safe in the market, he went with an AR in 7.62 NATO/ .308Win.(AR-10: I can't remember the actual model# or make.) New types of ammo have always interested me but very few have really impressed me with their ability to replace more older but very successful designs.

 

[Haxby]

Will it sell? I have no idea. Anything's possible. I never would have believed that people would buy a 410/45 revolver rifle.

 

[451 Detonics]

Wilson's plans include selling it as an easy to suppress .30 caliber. He did license the name Whisper from JD for the cans.

 

[nalioth]

Just another in the long line of "replacements".

Anyone remember the 6.5 MPC?

 

[longdayjake]

Its doomed. So is the 300 BO.

 

[451 Detonics]

Anyone remember the 6.5 MPC?

Yep...I have an AR build in the works for that round.

 

[brnmuenchow]

Mabye I just need a refresher, but is the 6.5 MPC another name for another cartridge I was thinking about the 6.5 Grendel? The 6.5 Grendel was another relativley new one that has not gotten anywhere.

 

[d2wing]

Interesting. The AR is a great little rifle designed for a small cartridge. The design is so specific to the cartridge hat those of us that want more power in the same package have problems finding a cartridge that feeds, fits the magazine and offers more power without losing something else. Especially off the shelf and cheap. Not a big deal for a handloader. Only the 6.8 spc II has much success. The Grendel is just too expensive and hard to find unless you handload. Which defeats the business model of selling cartridges and uppers in that caliber if only handloaders buy them.

 

[longdayjake]

Mabye I just need a refresher, but is the 6.5 MPC another name for another cartridge I was thinking about the 6.5 Grendel? The 6.5 Grendel was another relativley new one that has not gotten anywhere.

The 6.5 MPC is based off the .223 casing. The 6.5 Grendel is based of the 6PPC cartridge. Two totally different casings and chamberings. The Grendel has gotten somewhere. Hornady, Wolf, Black Hills, and AA make factory ammo for it. Hornady, Wolf, and Lapua make brass for reloading. There is some steel cased ammo soon to come that will be priced similarly to 7.62x39. The Grendel is gaining ground and is probably going to be around for quite a while.

Only the 6.8 spc II has much success. The Grendel is just too expensive and hard to find unless you handload. Which defeats the business model of selling cartridges and uppers in that caliber if only handloaders buy them.

The Grendel is no more expensive than 6.8. With Hornady now making factory ammo it is readily available. When the steel cased stuff comes out it will be pretty close to shooting 7.62x39.

How many companies make ammo that takes advantage of the spcII chamber? Silver State comes to mind, but all the others only make original SPC pressure loads.

I own both a 6.8 and 6.5 and I find that most guys that own either one are reloading for them in order to afford any decent amount of shooting.

 

[NG VI]

I'm always surprised that the new cartridges never seem to be a little chubbier to get some more case capacity. I can't think of anyone who would buy one of these and not be totally cool with losing five rounds or so out of a 30 round magazine compared to 5.56, in order to let them get some more velocity going. I like heavier bullet weights also, and it looks like they probably do alright in that respect, especially being a modified Whisper, but a little more case capacity really couldn't hurt these.


I also think it is doomed. Way too many similiar loadings that are already out there.

 

[brnmuenchow]

Interesting, okay I didn't realize that the 6.5 Grendel had even made that much progress being produced by those companies. Years ago, it was only a couple that were producing it so that is good for it if it makes it, just give it more time to catch on. I just want to clarify that when I first posted this I am not anti- new cartridge or anything but it does seem to me that some that come out sometimes just don't make too much sense in terms of what the designer is really trying to accomplish ballisticaly other than the obvious hit a home run and really try to sell something that will make history/ money (ex. .30-06, .270Win., .308Win., 7.62x39mm, 5.56 NATO) you get the picture some cartridges are just too popular to be simply replaced by some new variation of something old that is just as good. I also agree that the military does have a great deal of influence on the success of new creations or even variations. To be honest if the military had never supported the 7.62x51mm NATO (.308Win.), i'm not sure it would have survived the legendary popularity of competing against the .30-06 Spfld. in the commercial market.

 

[benEzra]

How does this compare to the .30 Remington AR?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30_Remington_AR

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/30-remington-ar/30-remington-ar.aspx