Will this barrel work on a Pietta frame?

[maint1517]

this barrel is marked FIE .36
Is there any way to make it work on a Pietta 1851 frame?https://m.ebay.com/itm/FIE-Etched-B...liber-Vintage-Black-Powder-Part-/183188386550

 

[maint1517]

There's only 2 hours left on the auction.
I need expert advice on this.

 

[AlexanderA]

Is there any way to make it work on a Pietta 1851 frame?

Probably not, considering that the FIE guns date from the 1960's. I had a pair of brass-frame FIE Navies that I bought in 1968. You could try it, but it would be a long shot.

 

[expat_alaska]

I concur with AA. It is also in pretty rough shape, but a new Pietta barrel from VTI is $125, and then you would have to buy the load lever/plunger/latch/lug/screws.

No doubt in my mind that it would take some fitting as it is probably ASM or Uberti, and you would have to check the depth of the arbor hole in the barrel lug for proper fit.

FIE was an importer.

Jim

 

[Fingers McGee]

Only way to know for sure is to try it.

 

[expat_alaska]

Well, maint, it appears you are not the new owner of the engraved barrel. Not sure if I would have passed on this because I always default to Fingers' knowledge, along with a bunch of tedious needle file work to get it presentable.

On the same page of the Ebay link you posted, I noticed this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Navy-Arms-...m=173286176389&_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850

I am a sucker for part round/part octagon 1851 Navy .36 barrels (L&R, R&A, Dance, and my fantasy Pietta 1851 Navy .36 "Dragoon"). This one looks in very good condition from the pics posted by the seller. And, the front brass post sight is missing, which would easily allow for a higher than normal brass rod to be fitted and filed down for whatever POA/POI you desire.

If Navy Arms it might be made early by G&U or Uberti, but fitting it properly is at least half the fun, as long as the bore is serviceable.

I am tempted to bid on it for my future Dance .36 project, but the money in the bank is not there, so it is a pipe dream for me. Sigh.

The guys on Ebay and GB are just working the market by breaking down and parting out complete guns as more money is made by this method as opposed to selling a complete gun. Parts always sell for more than the total worth of the completed item, no matter if it is vehicles, refrigerators, et al. Most people like me are just looking for one part/assembly to modify/repair a gun and those prices are less than new parts if you can find them.

Good luck on your 1851 Navy parts gun. I do not think you will break even, but I have been wrong many times before. The best part of this is that you will have fun knowing you got the gun you want after the purchases and elbow grease.

Regards,

Jim

 

[AlexanderA]

The guys on Ebay and GB are just working the market by breaking down and parting out complete guns as more money is made by this method as opposed to selling a complete gun. Parts always sell for more than the total worth of the completed item

Not only is the sum of the parts sometimes worth more than the complete gun, but this is/was a way of getting around the ebay restriction on selling complete guns. For example, for a muzzleloading long gun, the seller could list the stock, the lock, and the barrel separately, and this wouldn't raise any red flags. An astute bidder could search for and find all the related parts, and if he got lucky he could pick up a gun at a bargain. Or, he could end up overpaying.

 

[maint1517]

Well, maint, it appears you are not the new owner of the engraved barrel. Not sure if I would have passed on this because I always default to Fingers' knowledge, along with a bunch of tedious needle file work to get it presentable.

On the same page of the Ebay link you posted, I noticed this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Navy-Arms-Dragoon-Barrel-w-Lever-7-5-1851-Navy-36-Caliber-Vintage-Black-Powder/173286176389?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=2&asc=44039&meid=4076597e0be14faaa3a8110df4de3a13&pid=100011&rk=2&rkt=12&sd=183188386550&itm=173286176389&_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850

I am a sucker for part round/part octagon 1851 Navy .36 barrels (L&R, R&A, Dance, and my fantasy Pietta 1851 Navy .36 "Dragoon"). This one looks in very good condition from the pics posted by the seller. And, the front brass post sight is missing, which would easily allow for a higher than normal brass rod to be fitted and filed down for whatever POA/POI you desire.

If Navy Arms it might be made early by G&U or Uberti, but fitting it properly is at least half the fun, as long as the bore is serviceable.

I am tempted to bid on it for my future Dance .36 project, but the money in the bank is not there, so it is a pipe dream for me. Sigh.

The guys on Ebay and GB are just working the market by breaking down and parting out complete guns as more money is made by this method as opposed to selling a complete gun. Parts always sell for more than the total worth of the completed item, no matter if it is vehicles, refrigerators, et al. Most people like me are just looking for one part/assembly to modify/repair a gun and those prices are less than new parts if you can find them.

Good luck on your 1851 Navy parts gun. I do not think you will break even, but I have been wrong many times before. The best part of this is that you will have fun knowing you got the gun you want after the purchases and elbow grease.

Regards,

Jim

I was on the road when the auction ended and didn't see Fingers post until it was too late.
I think I'm going to be sick

 

[Steel Hayes]

Not to add insult to injury Maint, I was looking at another forum where someone had asked VTI if the same manufacturers were compatible (after I read this) and it would have worked.
Sorry about the loss.

 

[AlexanderA]

Not to add insult to injury Maint, I was looking at another forum where someone had asked VTI if the same manufacturers were compatible (after I read this) and it would have worked.

The Italian reproduction industry is somewhat of a mystery, on a technical level. Evidently some of the tooling gets passed around among the different manufacturers. This is especially true when it comes to defunct manufacturers. I have an Armi San Marco SAA clone, and an Armi San Paolo Remington NMA, and both of them have a lot of parts commonality with the current Uberti equivalents. But there are no guarantees. You have to try the part in question to see if it fits.

 

[maint1517]

I should have just followed my gut. I started to go ahead and bid!

 

[expat_alaska]

The Italian reproduction industry is somewhat of a mystery, on a technical level. Evidently some of the tooling gets passed around among the different manufacturers. This is especially true when it comes to defunct manufacturers. I have an Armi San Marco SAA clone, and an Armi San Paolo Remington NMA, and both of them have a lot of parts commonality with the current Uberti equivalents. But there are no guarantees. You have to try the part in question to see if it fits.

Good point, sir. It gets pretty deep insofar as small/defunct manufacturers in northern Italy, especially in the Gardone area.

The link is in Italian but if you use Google it will translate it into somewhat usable English:

http://www.earmi.it/A-Enciclopedia/default.html

Regards,

Jim

 

[expat_alaska]

I was looking at another forum where someone had asked VTI if the same manufacturers were compatible (after I read this) and it would have worked..

If I am reading your comment correctly, I would agree in part.

Same manufacturers, to me, means Pietta barrel to Pietta frame, ASM to ASM, Uberti to Uberti, et al. Then one has to consider that prior to CNC machining, many parts within the same manufacturer were somewhat hand fitted during assembly.

I agree that the barrel assembly in question could probably have been made to work with some fitting, which is not too difficult for someone with time on their hands such as (retired) me, but it is not "plug-and-play" (to borrow an anachronism).

The Pietta 1851 Navy type pistols I have are all CNC 2014-2017 and, while a couple of them required a bit of wedge fitting (thanks to Guido the Gorilla) and one required a .002" shim washer in the barrel lug arbor hole, I can swap frames and barrel assemblies with ease and no other fitting was required.

Maint has my (his now) Replica Arms El Paso Texas Colt 1848 Pocket .31 (1963 ASM manufacture) and he got it with a bolt/trigger spring that had lost its temper. I tried to find a replacement, ordered one each from 2 ASM parts sources, and neither was even close. Luckily he has a smith friend who made a new spring that works.

FIE was an importer in Miami FL that folded around 1990 and was transformed into EAA. I doubt any records exist as to who manufactured the barrel in question, but I have no doubt it is Italian, maybe ASM, ASP, Uberti, or even Pietta.

The barrel assembly would have been a cheap crapshoot @ $35.

Jim

 

[LonesomePigeon]

I have 4 Gregorelli & Uberti 1851 Navy and sometimes the barrels and cylinders are not interchangeable. The frame pin holes from one barrel will not line up with the frame pins on another frame, or the cylinder outer diameter is too large to fit on the frame of another gun. These old GU's are majorly hand fitted. Plus the old GU's are a totally different frame size from new Uberti's.

 

[expat_alaska]

Plus the old GU's are a totally different frame size from new Uberti's.

Now that is something I did not know. If you have four of them you have quite a hands-on experience, sir.

If you would, can you elaborate a bit about the frame size differences? Length of frame, length of arbor?

I am not doubting you, but just want to learn.

Thanks in advance!

Jim

 

[LonesomePigeon]

Jim, I have not taken measurements but I have those 4 GU's plus one circa 2015 Uberti '51 and side by side the difference is notable. I like the GU's a lot because the feel almost like a pocket pistol. I will take some measurements when I get the chance.

 

[expat_alaska]

Jim, I have not taken measurements but I have those 4 GU's plus one circa 2015 Uberti '51 and side by side the difference is notable. I like the GU's a lot because the feel almost like a pocket pistol. I will take some measurements when I get the chance.

I am eagerly awaiting your prognosis, sir. Thanks in advance!

Jim

 

[LonesomePigeon]

Ok...
Length of frame along the bottom:
GU - 2.96"
Uberti - 2.96"

Height of frame along the back:
GU - 1.02"
Uberti - 1.05"

Height of frame at front(frame nose):
GU - .24"
Uberti - .30"

Height of recoil shield:
GU - 1.43"
Uberti - 1.38"

Width of frame at rear:
GU - .89"
Uberti - .90"

Width of frame at front(frame nose):
GU - .70"
Uberti - .71"

Width of barrel lug at breech:
GU - .71"
Uberti - .73"

Width of barrel at muzzle:
GU - .63"
Uberti - .65"

Cylinder diameter:
GU - 1.53"
Uberti - 1.54"

Width of grips at bottom:
GU - 1.40"
Uberti - 1.48"