Winchester 1887/1901 or M1897? Or Norinco?

[cchris]

I'll start by saying that I do not own anything pump action or lever action, so both of these would be interesting for me to own.

I'm fairly set that I'd like to purchase one of these two guns, likely a Norinco repro (if I purchase in the near future) or the real deal (if I save up). Though if I get the 1897, I'd prefer the "trench gun" model, as I'd like a shotgun with a shorter barrel for home defense (a 30"-barrel Remington is just a bit too big). Plus, at least with owning the Winchester, I'd get the pleasure of owning a piece of history.

I'd like to know if anyone owns any of these guns (Winchester or Norinco), and what your opinion is of them. Am I better off saving up for the Winchester-produced models, or are the Norinco ones "just as good"?

 

[ReloaderFred]

I've shot the Norinco copy of the Model 1897 Winchester pretty extensively and it held up well. I also own 8 original Winchester 1897's at the present time. The oldest was made in 1899, and the newest in 1954. My wife and I fired both of those particular guns at a SASS match today.

I've shot the 1887 lever action Winchester, but it wasn't my favorite gun to shoot. If you don't load it just right, it hangs up, especially when trying to do it fast (in a match).

I personally prefer the original guns. Six of ours are take-down guns, and two are solid frames. The Norinco and IAC replicas only come in the solid frame configuration. The advantage of the solid frame is you don't have to worry about the adjustment between the barrel assembly and frame assembly, but I don't consider that a big issue. The other advantage of the solid frame is the reach to the forearm is about 1" shorter, which is why so many female shooters prefer them. Another advantage is they are already chambered for modern 2 3/4" shells, whereas many of the older guns aren't.

As to which one you should get, it depends on your needs. The Norinco and IAC guns only come in the riot gun configuration, so if you intended to cut a barrel down, it wouldn't be necessary with one of those guns. Original 1897's in riot configuration normally bring premium prices, but there are lots of them that have already been cut down from 28" or 30" to 18" to 22" guns. I prefer mine at 22", since the gun just seems to balance better for me.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[cchris]

Thanks for the help, I was pretty set on the 1897, but I didn't know if there were reasons to consider the 1887 or if for some reason the 1897 wasn't reliable. A lever-action shotgun is a cool concept, but I don't think I'll seek one out unless I come across it for less than $150.

It seems like the IAC's are running in the $400 range, which is a little high for a high-capacity, short(er)-barrel pump - I could get a newer Winchester-produced 1300 defender for cheaper than that. So I think I'll save up and pay more for a real-deal 1897, and in the meantime I could pick up a cheaper pump. That, or possibly buy an original Winchester 1897 and buy a spare cut-down barrel for it, so as not to screw up the original.

Another question about these guns (the original Winchester ones), what's the deal with the loads? I assume they accept 2 3/4", anything more particular information-wise anyone could let me know of?

 

[ReloaderFred]

First of all, if you spread the word that you're looking for an original Model 1897 shotgun, and don't get in a hurry, people will let you know when they hear of one for sale. I've gotten 4 of them that way. The most I've paid for one is $400.00, and I've paid that for two of them. One is a Black Diamond Trap, and the other was in such good condition I couldn't pass it up. The least I've paid for one is $150.00, and it's the newest one I've got, and has probably been shot the least. That is, until I bought it, since it's now my match gun.

There is more to replacing the barrel than just the barrel. It takes the piece that screws into the action, plus the adjustment cog and screw. It also takes a spare forearm and slide assembly. Most of these parts are almost impossible to come by unless you find a shotgun with a cracked frame from shooting shells that are too long, or the adjustment was too loose between the barrel assembly and the frame and the battering finally cracked the frame.

Most of the older guns were chambered for 2 5/8" shells, which had a roll crimp. Some have short forcing cones, which aggrevates the situation. You can tell shells that have been fired in a short chamber because the mouth of the crimp is all feathered from the shot smashing it in the forcing cone. This increases pressures on these old guns. I know there are people who say this isn't so, but I've seen several guns with cracked frames and none of them had the chambers reamed for modern star crimped ammunition.

If the gun is a take-down model, it's no big deal to have a gunsmith run a chamber reamer into it and to relieve the forcing cone. On the other hand, if it's a solid frame gun, most gunsmiths won't have a reamer that will fit inside the action to rechamber it, unless they've had one done up for them. That means removing the barrel from a gun that is probably close to 100 years old, and that can be a problem.

If you don't get in a hurry and let the word out, a '97 will find you.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[cchris]

Definitely a help. I hadn't realized the work that went into these, nor that they had issues with modern ammunition. In the meantime, I'm just going to go with a tube mag extension on my 11-48, and swap the barrel (which is straight-forward with that gun) with one that I can cut shorter, which should suit my HD needs. That way I can just wait for the right 97 to come along.

Thanks again.