Winchester 1892 Action Locks-up...

[M100C]

I've a Winchester 1892 with a problem. It is an old one (1903) in .32-20.

I can repeatedly open and close the action; it is very smooth, and locks up nice. I just spent about 5 min. cycling the action probably a full 200 cycles from full open (carrier fully lifted) to bolt lockup. No issues at all.

But ... when I load a few rounds, *usually* the gun will load the round, fire, extract and eject normally. Once in awhile (maybe one in 20 rounds), the action will lock open after ejecting the spent round. As I bring the lever back to the lower tang, it takes out the slack in the linkage, but the forward motion of the bolt stops. I can reopen, and the bolt will move back over the hammer (maybe an 1/8 inch). Being patient, I can jiggle it around, and the *gremlin* goes away, and it will then close. It seems like something intermittently binding the closing of the bolt or the lever.

Anyone seen this? Can you give me some leads to look at?

Thanks all,
Chris

 

[Jim K]

Are you using reloads or factory loads? Either way, measure the cartridge overall length. The Model 1892 cartridge carrier is sensitive to cartridge length, and it is common for the gun to hang up if the round is even a bit longer or shorter than it should be.

Jim

 

[rcmodel]

+1

32-20 WCF = MAX OAL = 1..592"
With a RN-FP bullet profile.

Anything longer, or very much shorter will cause the problem you describe.

Measure your ammo before you do anything else.

rc

 

[M100C]

rcmodel & Jim K,
Thanks ... factory Rem ammo. Also, thanks for being such good contributors! I really appreciate the time you spend sharing your knowledge at THR.

Measured OAL with micrometer. Thirty rounds ranged from 1.5765 to 1.5900. Statistics say about 1 in 20 would be at/over 1.5925 ...

When the bind occurs, does it also wedge the round between the bolt and chamber opening? For example, next time this happens, if I apply a little lever pressure (to maintain the bind), I can check the round with my finger; I assume it would be bound too? Or, is it creating a mechanical bind elsewhere.

 

[Jim K]

The next time the rifle binds up, if you can see if the round is free to move, it will pretty well rule out an ammo problem. Then we can try to see what else might be involved.

Jim

 

[M100C]

All,
The rifle bound up today after I ejected the last casing (and with no more in the mag), so it is not OLA of the ammo. I can also get it to bind infrequently with no ammo being handled through the action. Same thing; from fully open action, the bolt moves forward maybe 5/16 inch or so. With tension applied to the lever (to maintain the bind), I could reach in with my finger and push the carrier all the way down (so, it is not the bottom of the bolt hitting the cartridge stop on the carrier).

It is not really a bind so much as a block; I would swear there is a machinist's gauge block between the bolt face and the threaded end of the barrel; it feels that absolute. Then, something unknown causes it to go away, and it closes totally normally.

This rifle has real nice original screws, so I'd hate to have to take it down.

Chris

 

[rcmodel]

Well, you are going to have too it sounds like.

If you use the proper size hollow-ground gunsmith screwdrivers, no one will ever be the wiser.

That how they put them in without damaging them in the first place after all.

rc

 

[Jim K]

I have just finished taking a 92 apart and cannot figure what could be causing your problem. The only thing the bolt encounters at that point is the hammer (the recocking cam) and it would not feel like a solid block, only a hesitation.

Jim

 

[rcmodel]

I worked on an 1895 a while back that had the hard surface worn off the hammer face (more likely stoned off years ago) where the bolt rubbed over it to cock it.

It had a notch worn in the hammer face from hitting the firing pin and the bottom of the bolt running over it, and would lock up like that.

Might closely inspect the hammer face & bottom of the bolt for unusual wear.

Or at least put a dab of grease on it and see if it makes any difference.


And before anyone feels the need to point it out to me, yes I am aware an 1895 Winchester is not the same as an 1892 Winchester.

rc

 

[Jim K]

"... I am aware an 1895 Winchester is not the same as an 1892 Winchester."

Could have fooled me!

Jim

 

[M100C]

I took the gun apart (I have hollow ground screwdrivers), and it wasn't bad at all ...

The only potential culprit I could see was the right hand cartridge guide was quite loose (because its screw was loose).

The gun also went back together well, and seems to cycle about like it did before (if not, a little smoother). We'll see.

In the end, I might have been able to fix the problem by tightening the screw w/o taking the gun apart. I'll remember that next time. Still, I learned a lot, and better appreciate the design of the gun.

 

[Jim K]

Browning did not intend his guns to be disassembled by the owners. Most come apart easy and go together hard.

(The M1911 is an exception because the Army beat up on JMB until he made the thing easy to disassemble for cleaning.)

Jim

 

[rcmodel]

I might have been able to fix the problem by tightening the screw w/o taking the gun apart. I'll remember that next time.

You did the right thing by taking it apart to tighten it.

Any time a cartridge guide is found to be loose?

It needs to come clear out of the receiver to clean all the crud out from under it in the receiver seat groove before tightening it down again.

It will never seat in the receiver right if there is dirt left under it.

And you can bend & ruin one tightening it with a chunk of junk under it.

rc

 

[M100C]

SOLVED!

The action on my 1892 is still locking open, and I discovered the issue, so I wanted to post it.

When the gun action is open, and the gun is tipped on its left side, the lever/breechbolt pin slides out into the locking bolt channel in the receiver, thus locking the bolt open. I can flip the gun over, and jiggle/bump the receiver with my fist, and it slides back in, and the gun will close with no problem.

When I was disassembling the gun, with the retaining screw out of the receiver, I could easily push the pin out by hand. There was not excessive play, but it floats like a connecting rod pin in a piston. It is not a press fit. That is my question ... I suppose I should need to drift this pin in with a brass punch, right? Today, I could drift it fully out of the receiver with a toothpick!

 

[MartinS]

Check this link, scroll down to the 92 exploded views and see if you can find the pin in question and find out if it is meant to be retained in place by friction or another part. If by friction maybe you could roughen it or flatten slighty to make it sick in its little hidy hole.

http://www.rarewinchesters.com/models.shtml