Winchester 1895 saddle ring carbine reissue

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7.62x54r or go home.

Very nice. Wish there were more of those around.

At any rate, I did pick up that rifle yesterday. Looks great and shoulders like a dream. One problem, though. Some enterprising former owner decided to add sling swivels. Rather than lower himself to such a base task, he apparently let his trusty labradoodle take a crack at it. The result is some appallingly crude chiseling on those beautiful walnut stocks--stocks that, if I had the dough, would cost over $400 to replace. Unfreakingbelieveable.

For the price I paid I can't complain, though. Besides, there's a well known smith not far from here who will make those swivels look like they were installed by an adult for a small fee.

Winchester_1895_SRC_right.jpg
Winchester_1895_SRC_lever.jpg
Winchester_1895_SRC_left_CU.jpg

And, wait for it . . .






wait for it . . .




Some nice chiseling there, chief:
Winchester_1895_SRC_sling_swivel_D_OH_.jpg
 
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Oh Lord, that is bad. I added swivels to mine (a full length rifle version made by Browning), but needless to say I didn't end up butchering it in the process. Still a good find on a very nice carbine though.

On a different (and better) note, yours is D&T'd, and looking at mine, it appears as though the Williams receiver sight will fit...perhaps even the Lyman No. 21 (but I don't yet have one installed, so I can't be certain).

:)
 
Oh Lord, that is bad. I added swivels to mine (a full length rifle version made by Browning), but needless to say I didn't end up butchering it in the process. Still a good find on a very nice carbine though.

Thanks. It's an absolutely beautiful gun, except for those swivel reliefs. I mean, who drops that kind of money on that kind of a rifle, then carves it up?

I'd rather have kept mine original (even though it's a reissue), but I'm committed to the swivels at this point. At least the damage can be fixed.

On a different (and better) note, yours is D&T'd, and looking at mine, it appears as though the Williams receiver sight will fit...perhaps even the Lyman No. 21 (but I don't yet have one installed, so I can't be certain).

I'm getting conflicting information as to whether receiver sights will clear the saddle ring mount. I'll have the smith take a look at that while he's busy unf***ing the stock.
 
From what I see on mine, it looks like it would fit just fine (the saddle ring will probably clank on it, but that shouldn't really hurt anything). See the following photo for a look:

IMG_5829.jpg

:)
 
From what I see on mine, it looks like it would fit just fine (the saddle ring will probably clank on it, but that shouldn't really hurt anything). See the following photo for a look:

Thanks again. That pic is really helpful. Which model Williams is that?

Fine looking rifle you've got there.
 
Thanks, I like it a lot. It too is an '06, but I have plans to convert it to a more practical .35Whelen in the not-too-distant future.

:)
 
The saddle ring will unscrew. Rotate the ring so the joint is away from the stud, put a decent size crescent wrench on it, like a 12", and it will come off. I removed the ring and stud from my 86 carbine. They don't serve any useful purpose unless you plan on carrying it with a cavalry sling across the body, like in the 1850's thru 80's. I made a filler screw from a metric allen set screw, filed flat on the non-allen head end, grooved for slot, and cold blued. I didnt take it off because of the sight, I simply don't like them.

Someone said the Lyman 21/38's used standard holes, that's not the case, two holes have to be drilled and tapped, at least on all the Winchesters I've seen. I have seen some with saddle rings and yman 21/38's, but there isnt really any reason to keep the ring unless you just like the way it looks. It's simple to drill and tap for common receiver sights.

Hope your guy can get the wood butchery squared away. Nice carbine otherwise. I believe the originals that had slings had a front sling mount integral with the fore end band. It's fairly simply to drill the band. I used to tap them for a stud, but went to drilling thru the band, and inletting the small knurled nut in the wood under the band, it gives much better thread area for the stud. I grind the nut to the inside contour of the band also. A small flat filed on the band gives some room for indexing to square.

The Williams sight that fits the 95's should be the 71-something model, made for the Winchester or Browning 71's. If you can afford them, or can wait to find a resonably priced one, the old Lyman No 56 receiver sights look old timey, work very well, and are all steel.

Lyman 56 on a Browning 86 carbine. Also shows the filler screw for the saddle ring hole.

c29aa3b0.gif
 
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Someone said the Lyman 21/38's used standard holes, that's not the case, two holes have to be drilled and tapped, at least on all the Winchesters I've seen. I have seen some with saddle rings and yman 21/38's, but there isnt really any reason to keep the ring unless you just like the way it looks. It's simple to drill and tap for common receiver sights.
It has the holes (and they are properly located), but the thread pattern was changed in the new models so you have to re-drill/tap them to the proper size (IIRC it even comes with the proper bit and tap for the job). The way the Lyman No. 21 works may interfere with the saddle ring (from the looks of it, it likely will), but I can't be certain of that as I have yet to purchase one.

:)
 
Yes, you are correct, the 95's do use the lever pin plug screw hole for the front mount, tho I don't believe any factory hole corresponds to the rear hole. I don't think standard later type receiver sight holes match 21 layout, but I could be mistaken. The originals I've seen had the rear mount slightly lower than the 56 type mounted.

Rather than re-tapping the threads in the receiver, I'd have a new screw made, so as not to change the gun. I believe the copies of the sights have screws that fit the originals, but the modern guns have metric threads.

I was thinking of the 94's. I've seen pictures of 94's that used the lever pin plug screw hole, but more often I've seen them mounted with a new hole, the rear mount needed a new hole either way tho. 92's need both holes drilled and tapped for the 21/38's.
 
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Yes, you are correct, the 95's do use the lever pin plug screw hole for the front mount, tho I don't believe any factory hole corresponds to the rear hole. I don't think standard later type receiver sight holes match 21 layout, but I could be mistaken. The originals I've seen had the rear mount slightly lower than the 56 type mounted.
I believe they are in the right place, but I'm not 100% positive. I'll do a bit of research (need to be certain of this myself) and report back with my findings. From what I have seen the hole appears to be in the same position, but the sight hangs down a bit further (which quite possibly would interfere with a saddle ring). Model '94s and '92s I don't know about.

Rather than re-tapping the threads in the receiver, I'd have a new screw made, so as not to change the gun. I believe the copies of the sights have screws that fit the originals, but the modern guns have metric threads.
You're absolutely correct, and that isn't a bad idea at all. I think I may end up doing the same myself.

:)
 
Alright, here's the scoop (from what I can uncover): The Providence Tool No. 21 reproduction (as seen here) uses the factory holes in the Model 1895, & 1886, but requires you to enlarge the hole and re-tap it to the original thread (standard instead of the new metric size). As best as I can tell the '92 and '94 does require drilling and tapping a new hole in the rear for the adjustment (as well as enlarging/re-taping the front one on "new" models). According to the manufacturer removal of the saddle ring/stud is requisite for this particular sight (see above link for more details).

Hope this helps.

:)
 
Metalurgy was not as advanced in the early guns -- modern 1895s will easily take .30-06 pressures.
+1; mine has been doing just fine. I imagine the same is true for the '94s despite the lack of high-P chamberings (which should really be considered IMO).

:)
 
http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/sights/66-receiver-peep.php don't worry it WILL clear the saddle ring. A tang sight would necessitate d/t it looks funky b/c it has to fit between the safety and that rear screw. someone used to make a lyman model 21 copy but it was spendy http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4604321/3 http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23187 http://www.rarewinchesters.com/gunroom/1895/model_95.shtml nice addition. sorry about the botched carving. i wonder where one could get new wood, someone botched my rear buttstock while trying to install a rubber buttpad on my my reproduction long bbl model. i am also wondering if it would be possible to find a cleaning kit to fit in back and original style sling swivels on that bbl band? i have shot a lot of handloaded youth loads through mine http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Youth Loads.pdf
 
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here ya go

oh sorry this was already posted above from the buffalo arms co. when i get a chance i will post pix of mine.
 
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