Winchester FAIL

[Gamecocks1]

I know it's been said already. I know others have had the same experience. But I'd like to add my $.02 because I think it's worthwhile to draw attention to the substandard quality and abysmal customer service offered by Winchester's Universal shotshells. It had been a looong time since I had shot skeet and trap in Boy Scout camp, and I was looking forward to picking it up again in anticipation of dove season when I bought a Remington 870 Super Magnum and a 100 round pack of Win's Universal ammo and headed to the excellent Partridge Creek Gun Club in Ridgeville, SC. Imagine my frustration when the afternoon was abruptly cut short by the impossibility of ejecting the spent shells. I had to take the barrel off in order to remove them.

So I learned my lesson, won't buy cheap Winchester ammo anymore (although cheap remington and federal worked without hiccups). But there's $20 I won't get back since Wally World wont accept returns on ammo (rightfully so).

It has been nearly impossible to reach anyone at Winchester to notify about the problem or seek any kind of reimbursement. I know much more reputable manufacturers who would jump at the chance to send out replacement ammo and assuage my concerns about the rest of their product line. IMO, some ammo just won't work with certain styles of guns and that's okay (i know win universal works for others), but there's no excuse for bad customer service.

Winchester rifles will no longer be on my list of options for the bolt-action I'm planning to buy for deer season this year. Remington 700 anyone?

I'm not looking for suggestions on how to fix the problem, just the chance to blow off some steam and give some well-deserved bad press to the "customer service" offered by Winchester.

 

[Gamecocks1]

Follow Up

Winchester got back to me! After initially getting a little run around, I finally left a message on the correct voicemail box, and a wonderful lady at winchester service returned my call, sent out a UPS pickup tag (prepaid) and offered compensation for the price of the ammo! I was told that the technicians will take a look at the shells and investigate the cause of the malfunction and make a report. All in all, I am extremely satisfied with the end result of this interaction. I guess it goes to show that sometimes a little patience is required to fix a problem.

Humbled and appreciative,

Gamecocks1

 

[Snarlingiron]

Gamecocks, I am glad that you posted your follow up. A little humble pie now and again ain't really so bad.
I applaud you for correcting your first post...a lot of folks wouldn't have.

 

[oneounceload]

Nice to see what appears to be a happy outcome. Those Universals, however, have been noted for their hard to extract feature for many a moon now - steel head cases, especially those seem to repeatedly stick in many guns. Best advice is to avoid those altogether.......

 

[DPris]

And, Winchester ammunition is made by a totally different company than the Winchester-branded rifles.
Denis

 

[RandKL]

Remington 870 Super Magnum and a 100 round pack of Win's Universal ammo

So you blamed the ammo?

Instead of so rudely ragging on the guy's gun, why not word your post in "high road" fashion?

Done, RD. Thanks for the headsup, sir!

rich

 

[RandKL]

Those Universals, however, have been noted for their hard to extract feature for many a moon now

You left out the other half of the sentence, OOL. "In a rough-chambered Remington 870". There have been no appreciable probs with that ammo in any other gun....though I have no doubt there will now be a half a dozen posts of "it failed in all 26 of my shotguns just yesterday!"

rich

 

[Rail Driver]

So you blamed the ammo?

Here's a tip: if that gun was worth a tinker's damn, it would have no problem with that ammo. Perhaps you should trade in that bottom line gun and buy a ten year old used Wingmaster? You won't have to blame your ammo then.

r

Instead of so rudely ragging on the guy's gun, why not word your post in "high road" fashion?

I owned an 870 for a long time and the only problems I had were the steel based shells. It's a quirk with the gun just like any other. Some guns like some ammo, others don't. Even within the same make and model this holds true.

FWIW The Winchester Universal runs great in my buddy's Mossberg 500, but (same as OP) wouldn't extract 100% of the time in my 870, though it usually did.

Enjoy your 870, GC... It's a great shotgun, though a bit slow for wingshooting in my experience.

 

[RandKL]

Instead of so rudely ragging on the guy's gun, why not word your post in "high road" fashion?

You're absolutely right.

Gamecocks1, that ammo has no known issues with any gun other than the one you chose to try to use it in. There have been hundreds of posts made by folks who have had that exact same problem in that exact same line of guns....and none that I am aware of in any other gun besides that line of guns you bought. Given that, it's a good probability that your gun is at fault, not the ammo.

rich

 

[Dave McCracken]

Glad you had a positive outcome.

FWIW, two WMs here of far from new condition choke on Gun Clubs. Shells extract but only with effort. Both are silky with other ammo. Haven't tried the Winchesters.

 

[my762buzz]

You left out the other half of the sentence, OOL. "In a rough-chambered Remington 870". There have been no appreciable probs with that ammo in any other gun....though I have no doubt there will now be a half a dozen posts of "it failed in all 26 of my shotguns just yesterday!"

rich

A similar thing happens with laquered coated ammo and some AR15s.
Maybe these AR15 rifles are defective if they can't cycle laquer coated ammo that millions of other rifles can.

 

[zhyla]

In another thread someone mentioned these "bulk" shells are out of spec some how. Does anyone know if this is actually true? If I find some free time I want to find the spec for 12 gauge shells and measure a few different kinds.

I got to see a number of extraction issues this weekend at a local match. All of them were 870's, not sure which ammo but almost everybody was shooting bulk packs. I put 100 rounds of Winchester Universals thru my 590 that day with no problems of any sort. It's entirely anecdotal of course, but what is Mossberg doing differently? Better polish job? Looser chamber to begin with?

 

[rbernie]

what is Mossberg doing differently? Better polish job? Looser chamber to begin with?

The last 500 that I owned had miked out with a looser chamber than my 870s.

 

[Gord]

There have been no appreciable probs with that ammo in any other gun.

Actually, I've had that Winchester ammo hang up in an H&R break action a bunch (which I actually purchased specifically to dispose of said ammo), and I've seen it clog up a friend's (older) Mossberg 500 intermittently but consistently. Both guns run/ran just fine with everything else I/we stuffed in 'em.

Don't let my first-hand experience get in the way of your manufacturer-hating, though. We understand: Remington killed your family, stole your newspaper and raped your dog, and that's something a man just cain't forgive.

 

[zhyla]

The last 500 that I owned had miked out with a looser chamber than my 870s.

Thanks, at least that's some real data. I tend not to get too hung up on internet complaints, you don't have a ton of people posting about how their gun "just worked".

I frequently have people ask me what kind of shotgun to buy. From what I've seen with my own eyes I have to steer them away from 870, or at least the express models. It's a shame, it's supposed to be the gun. For a lot of newbies, "just run 1000 rounds thru it" isn't a helpful solution.

 

[RandKL]

Actually, I've had that

Told ya so

lol

rich

 

[jordan1948]

I find that Wichester shotgun shells work better in my old shotguns verses the newer ones, not sure why though. Anyone else like this?

 

[murdoc rose]

Only time I've had issues with Winchester ammo is in semi autos but it is cheap for a reason

 

[SWAMPUS]

More Jams

Better add BPS to the list.Not a bottom line gun.While shooting skeet 2 weeks ago,I fought my way thru a box of Win.Worked fine in o/u and dbl.Missed several dbl's cause of 'sticky shells'.I won't buy anymore.

 

[evan price]

I never had a problem with Universals from Wal*Mart or any other Winchesters in my Mossbergs or Winchester 1200. Lately I've been shooting Federals because they have the Range & Field for $49 a flat but I did usually buy Winchester Super-Target if I had the chance.
Prices are coming down, Dick's has Remington Gun Clubs for $4.98/25 and Wal*Mart has all three- Federal, Remington & Winchester- 100-packs for $20.97 each.

 

[Red State]

From personal experience, the Winchesters are worst ammo I have ever used. My 1100 will not cycle them reliably. Remington and Federal shells work just fine.

There have been several other threads on this board where the same general sentiment has been expressed.

 

[Red State]

Just to clarify, I am talking about the Winchester 100 round value packs from Walmart.

Some of their other varieties of shell have been outstanding.

 

[oneounceload]

I have always had issues with both the Universals and ESPECIALLY the Super Speeds by Winchester - not for FTE, but just because they beat the hell out of my shoulder. Of the three promo loads from wally world, I'd take the Federals first; but I prefer Gun Clubs over any of those three.

Regarding being out of spec - steel heads are less forgiving than brass - when they expand they do not constrict as well; when they are made, sometimes the heads are ever so slightly out of round or oversized. Some guns have issues with that - per some folks here, it appears the newer Remingtons do. I shoot O/U and SxS, so I can't confirm or deny based on first-hand experience, only from what I have observed at my gun club. There, the folks who had issues switched to the Federals and have been happy ever since

 

[Snarlingiron]

Regarding being out of spec - steel heads are less forgiving than brass - when they expand they do not constrict as well

Unfortunately, there are very few shells made today that truly have brass bases. Even though they look like brass, a quick slice with your pocket knife will reveal the steel beneath. It is just a brass plating. To confirm, I just picked up a couple of shells from the trunk of my car. One is a Gun Club, and it makes no attempt to hide the steel base. The other is a Winchester Super X Game Load. Looks like brass, but it is brass plated steel.

I'm just saying don't make too much of the steel base, because even though they may look like brass, most of them aren't anymore. Especially in the economy shells.

 

[rbernie]

AFAIK, only STS and AA hulls use brass bases...