Would You Trade One Gun Law For Another?

[herrwalther]

I understand and appreciate the thought experiment. But, gun rights have been on a steady decline since 1934 at the Federal level. Then again in 1968. And now, probably another big one that would outlaw millions of firearms if everything passes. Gun rights as a whole have given up enough.

 

[starnbar]

10 20 30 round magazines so what, have you looked at what a continental soldier carried as far as a paper cartridge pouch was 18-20 rounds yeah over 200 years ago. There are enough laws on the books I say NO to any additional infringements we owe Congress NOTHING they owe us and as far as safety in school get rid of gun free signs and put an armed complement at the school anyone who starts shooting make em graveyard dead right there you fight fire with fire.

 

[AlexanderA]

Hughes amendment abolishment for 21 and up firearms sales, dew it.

There's not enough of a quid pro quo here, on either side. If you simply abolish the Hughes Amendment, everybody would want to Form 1 everything, and the ATF would be swamped. Approvals would take years. To go along with Hughes Amendment repeal, you'd have to streamline the process, so that NFA approval is something like an enhanced NICS check, with a time limit of no more than a week.

And the antis would never go along with this, for a "mere" increase in age to 21. Make it 25, and throw in a psychological exam for good measure.

 

[FL-NC]

No trades. No reason to. We have had more wins than losses on our record, and I think things are going to change in our favor sooner than later around the beltway. 8 years under 0 with jb taking the wheel defiling 2A resulted in not much accomplished- 0's biggest disappointment (direct quote). Don't think jb is going to get much done, esp. not with everything else going on, and the winds of change most likely blowing a hurricane in less than 180 days.

 

[edwardware]

Is there anything you'd want that would be worth trading for?

Sure, how about a Universal Permit.

Every citizen over 18, who is not a felon or a mental defective, is issued a Citizenship Card, like a driver's license. If you have one, you may own/use/posses any (any!) gun, anywhere; if you don't then you made not (loaning with supervision aside). The act of possessing a gun if your Citizenship has been revoked by a competent Court is a crime; the act of selling a gun to someone who doesn't have one is a crime.

And you must show the same ID to vote.

So, a universal permit, that demonstrates that you aren't a prohibited person. . . prohibited from owning a gun or voting. I see no reason the two should be separated.

Now that is a meaningful trade, not an incremental encroachment

 

[N555]

They never trade, they only ever take, take, take, take. What they can't get today they will try for after the next mass situation.

 

[WrongHanded]

A 10 round magazine limit was a concern when I lived in the Chicago area given that a significant percentage of violent crimes we saw were committed by 4 or more criminals, including the last three shootings in the suburb I lived in. How things were 75 to 100 years ago are not relevant to the issues we're facing today.

Yep, there are good arguments for 15 rounds rather than 10 rounds. Arguing 20 rather than 15 is harder. Arguing 30 rather than 20, harder still.

But the flip side to your Chicago issue is, wouldn't Chicago be safer if all the law abiding citizens who resided there or visited, could legally carry a concealed firearm for personal protection? I think we know it would be, and we all know why. Don't we?

 

[WrongHanded]

They never trade, they only ever take, take, take, take. What they can't get today they will try for after the next mass situation.

I haven't heard of any attempt to make a trade with them. There may be some cases of it, but I'm not aware of any. I think a proactive approach would be meaningful to the public. Offer something the opposition wants to take/restrict, and request something pragmatic (and explain why it's pragmatic) in return. If they don't play ball, at least the conservatives can stand up and say they honestly tried. Playing defense and not addressing issues of public concern doesn't cast them in a favorable light. It makes it look like innocent kids and being gunned down, and they don't care. Write some bills with real compromises in them, and that public perception changes, even if no new laws come of it.

 

[DoubleMag]

Negotiate your constitutional rights ha ha Thomas Jefferson would have you put in irons for sedition is that what the citizens of this country...

Prison!

 

[WrongHanded]

The dems are going to seek all of their pet proposals put into law. The republicans should counter with a bill for term limits for both the congress and senate. Then let the negotiations begin to see what the dems are willing to "compromise" on.

Ah, nobody in a position of power really wants to limit it. If that were the case, we'd already have term limits. Ask Mitch McConnell, or any of the other career politician Republicans, how they feel about that idea. Personally I'd like to see it, but it won't happen.

Anyhow, back to trading...

 

[DustyGmt]

No trades. No reason to. We have had more wins than losses on our record, and I think things are going to change in our favor sooner than later around the beltway. 8 years under 0 with jb taking the wheel defiling 2A resulted in not much accomplished- 0's biggest disappointment (direct quote). Don't think jb is going to get much done, esp. not with everything else going on, and the winds of change most likely blowing a hurricane in less than 180 days.

True. He already let it slip in a recent media snippet, he flat out said "I can't just ban a certain type of weapon" or something to that effect. It was nice to hear him actually say it........

But I think with every passing year, and every additional mass shooting, our position is weakened. I understand the "no compromise" approach, but I have lil confidence that should we get the red hot poker and have our rights stripped, that we will actually stand up and do what is necessary in terms of voting or violent uprising, etc.....

 

[WrongHanded]

True. He already let it slip in a recent media snippet, he flat out said "I can't just ban a certain type of weapon" or something to that effect. It was nice to hear him actually say it........

But I think with every passing year, and every additional mass shooting, our position is weakened. I understand the "no compromise" approach, but I have lil confidence that should we get the red hot poker and have our rights stripped, that we will actually stand up and do what is necessary in terms of voting or violent uprising, etc.....

With every passing year, more kids are becoming eligible to vote. Kids who went through active shooter drills in school. Kids who've been taught guns are evil, and seen the aftermath of mass shootings on TV. Kids who have grown up in states that don't allow law abiding citizens to carry concealed firearms for self defense. I wonder, with every passing year, what those kids would be willing to vote to restrict.

Perhaps if those kids could see the benefits that a healthy CCW populace has in deterring violent crime, they might look more favorable upon firearms. If not, I guess it's only a matter of time.

 

[Blue Jays]

Were I to post who/what I think is behind these "lone wolf" shootings the thread would be instantly locked.
Needless to say there are a few groups that seem to breathlessly await each one. That truly saddens me.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Not sure I understand but I have recently been thinking that I could probably get behind a 21 age limit for firearm purchases on the condition that they drop the issue there. That would be a good trade in my opinion. We have some young men who join the service at 18 and are indeed "men", but in the last 30 years something has changed. Kids just out of high school aren't "men", they're sniveling lil crybaby wussy la la types who can't let go of the ribbing they took in high school so they shoot up a place. We might all be better off if we gave these new generation of kids a lil time to grow up and let go of the high school vendettas....

Totally just my opinion, I'm certainly not in favor of any additional firearm restrictions so don't flame me for my opinion, but if I was gonna trade something, that'd be it. Sadly that's not how this thing works, but hypothetically, that'd be my compromise

ETA: I fully understand the hypocrisy here, we take away 2nd Amendment rights for people of legal adult age, but ask them to go die in war, subject to drafts, legally eligible to vote, etc... in this scenario I would also be willing to move the legal age to 21 in all those cases as well. 18 year Olds just aren't what they used to be.....

How about we raise the age to purchase a gun to 21 as long as they also raise the voting age to 21.
If you're too immature to wield firepower, then you're too immature to wield political power.

 

[Bazoo]

I’d be willing to compromise and lose the right to own semi auto rifles (or add them to the Nfa) in exchange for 1) universal carry permit. Universal in that I could carry anywhere and everywhere. Every state, no matter what or where, planes, fed buildings.

2) I’d also want it so there would never be any more gun laws passed to further restrict our rights. Basically freeze the assault on our rights.

I’m more afraid of red flag laws than anything though. I know folks that would go down and lie and have you’re guns taken away if they were mad at you. If they could.

 

[kmw1954]

First you need to Trust the politics of this and of those arguing it.
I have little trust!

 

[Scooter22]

Here's another thing we pro 2A preach that got slammed. "A good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with one." Well there were 19 LEO's standing in the hall outside the class room door for almost 1 hour and did nothing. But some fathers out side asked for a vest and gun to go in. Unbelivable

I also agree with Bazoo on the red flag laws. Anyone can call and set that into motion. Thats a big one that should be stopped but I doubt it will. Cops show up and drag a lifes worth collection out of your home and throw it in the back of a evidence van and stack it in the evidence room? Until you can prove your innocent! Something like this happened to a guy here about 20 years ago before red flag laws, He came home from work and found his house broken into, He called the police. They came and investigated and saw he had about a dozen long guns. THey confiscated them until he could prove they were his!!! Do you guys have receipts for guns you bought 20,30,40 years ago? Or ones given as leagle gifts of inherited? I don,t.

I’d be willing to compromise and lose the right to own semi auto rifles (or add them to the Nfa)


But this is a huge can of BS to concede. So every semi auto .22 rifle needs to be registered so someone can carry a handgun? I think there are way more rifles owned than people that want to carry a handgun overall. No thanks.

 

[DustyGmt]

How about we raise the age to purchase a gun to 21 as long as they also raise the voting age to 21.
If you're too immature to wield firepower, then you're too immature to wield political power.

Exactly. Not sure if that came across in my post, but that is exactly what I was saying. Like I said, I'd prefer a "no compromise" approach, just not sure that is a winning strategy in the long term.....

 

[DustyGmt]

I’m more afraid of red flag laws than anything though. I know folks that would go down and lie and have you’re guns taken away if they were mad at you. If they could.

Yeah, same here. What seems to be a common theme among pro 2A people is the "inprove mental health screening", mental health, etc.... to me that's a pretty scary proposition because "mental health" problems are way too open to interpretation and abuse, since alot of us, who aren't a danger to the public would be subject to some sort of mental health diagnosis whether it be depression, generalized anxiety, etc..... I could see us going down a very bad road on the "improve mental health reporting" front.

That could potentially restrict ⅔ the gun owning population. We don't want to bark up that tree, IMO. Alot of us might be a lil screwy, doesn't mean we ought to be restricted the right to bear arms for self defense.....

 

[WrongHanded]

How about we raise the age to purchase a gun to 21 as long as they also raise the voting age to 21.
If you're too immature to wield firepower, then you're too immature to wield political power.

This is very good point. Most 18 year olds are straight out of high school, maybe heading to college, with no real understand of the world other than what they see on social media. There are certainly some exceptions, but perhaps the only one to make would be if a person is 18-21 and active military, they could be granted voting and gun ownership rights.

 

[WrongHanded]

Yeah, same here. What seems to be a common theme among pro 2A people is the "inprove mental health screening", mental health, etc.... to me that's a pretty scary proposition because "mental health" problems are way too open to interpretation and abuse, since alot of us, who aren't a danger to the public would be subject to some sort of mental health diagnosis whether it be depression, generalized anxiety, etc..... I could see us going down a very bad road on the "improve mental health reporting" front.

That could potentially restrict ⅔ the gun owning population. We don't want to bark up that tree, IMO. Alot of us might be a lil screwy, doesn't mean we ought to be restricted the right to bear arms for self defense.....

1 in 5 people in the US have some kind of mental illness, according to this: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/sta...llnesses are common in,(52.9 million in 2020).

 

[MistWolf]

How much more do you want me to give? We have a federal law defining SBRs and SBSs because the politicians wanted to ban handguns and didn’t want the people to convert rifles & shotguns into handguns. But, we got to keep handguns and can now pay a $200 tax to chop the barrels on our rifles & shotguns.

We have states that prohibit the possession of a handgun by minors. What do I get out of that? Bad actors on a “catch & release” program. They plea bargain the charges away and I get to feel good because “another gun is off the streets”.

You wanna raise the age to purchase all firearms up to 21? What do I get out of it? Military personnel fighting and dying in foreign lands as young as 18, yet when they come home a year later, they can’t buy a rifle to defend their homes and family with. Yet, the 14 year old thugs that kick in our vet’s door are carrying “nineys” and drop bodies on the floor with impunity. If they get caught, they get their charges and sentences plea bargained down to nothing. Oh, and an unconstitutional law loses a couple of teeth.

How do we know the other side will keep their part of the bargain? They never have before. This idea of giving up rights to gain rights is like telling King Solomon where to split the baby.

What is the plan when we run out of things to give up? You think they’ll give us a take back? Ha!

Maybe with this plan, we’ll be able to conceal carry a handgun anywhere in the US without a permit, but after giving up rights to get there, we’ll be limited to a single shot .22 caliber cap pistol.

 

[MistWolf]

Might as well go start a thread- “What Did You Trade YOUR Backbone For?”

 

[DustyGmt]

1 in 5 people in the US have some kind of mental illness, according to this: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/mental-illness#:~:text=Mental illnesses are common in,(52.9 million in 2020).

I believe it, I don't think they all ought to be prohibited, but if you're cruel to animals, domestic abuser, make terroristic threats, beat women, felonious criminal, by all means, to hell with em and their RTKBA...... I think enforcing the laws that already exist would be a step in the right direction.....

 

[WrongHanded]

How much more do you want me to give?

How much more can you stand to lose without getting anything in return?

As I said earlier, the current generation coming into adulthood seems to feel gun control is a good thing. More of them will be eligible to vote every year, from now until you and I die. If we trade something we're increasingly likely to lose anyway, for something than can help fix some of the violent crime issues and make us all safer, don't you think that might have some sway with them? Maybe get them to a different perspective?

For example: Did violent crime drop from the 1990s because of the AWB, the war on drugs, or the increased state by state adoption of CCW permitting? Hard to say for sure. But what if we could say, 10 years from now, that the lower rate of violent crime was as a direct result of nation wide CCW permitting and reciprocity?

Just something for us all to ponder.