WWII or Vietnam 1911?

[kBob]

I truely think the accuracy "problems" with the 1911A1 in US service was a loose nut behind the grip frame......that is the shooter.

An example was one of my bosses in te Artillery. He had been enlisted five years and an officer for fie years and never once actually qualified with the 1911A1. ALways managed to shoot an M-16A1 as his issue weapon and barely make marksman. ( although in 1970 he made excellent use of an M-16A1 at two yards and at a bit over 150 yards in a hot sweaty place in Southeast asia you might have heard of). Our new Colonel insisted folks actually shoot their assigned guns......I had none but the Colonel had authorized my carry of any Privately owned weapons I could qualify with. SO I carried my Series 70 Mark IV .45ACP. I still used the finger bushing at the time and had "messed with" the trigger stuff so, no surprise, it shot very well.

Twice my boss went to the line and twice he failed to qualify. To me the use of the M-1 Pencil for qualification is a deadly sin so that was not going to happen. He comented that it was easy for me to qualify with the special pistol. I took my Series 70 down to show him how the finger bushing and barrel locked up, then broke his pistol down to compare it then assembled his gun with my barrel and bushing. I then sent him to the ammo point.

He came back and shot sharp shooter. He then had many good things to say about my Series 70 barrel and bushing. I asked him to strip his pistol so we could swap parts out. He was flabergasted to find I had replaced his original parts back in his pistol while he was at the ammo point and he qualified Sharpshooter with the same gear he had failed to even qualify with only minutes early...twice.

When I was enlisted a member of our weapons squad that carried a 1911A1 failed to qualify so I loudly asked one of our NCOs to issue him some of the "Special Match Ammunition" we had and he caught on right away and set a partial can we had from an earlier shoot on the table and made a big deal of counting out the ammo needed for Qualification. Guess what? with the SPecial Match Ammo that was just the left over ball from four months ago the guy qualified.

The worst M1911A1 I ever used in service, including one that rattled from being constructed of left over parts from my rebuilding the platoon guns via mixing the best fitting parts and leaving the junk on the extra gun (we had 10 and nine slots for them in the platoon) could have shot a qialifying score, mabe not expert but at least qualifying.

See what I mean?

-kBob

 

[Onmilo]

In 1982 and 1983, I had the good fortune to hang out in a Special Forces Arms Room. They had some remarkable things there but what I remember most were BRAND NEW in the original box 1911A1 pistols from Colt and Remington rand as well as Brand New in the carton M14 rifles!
I often wonder what became of those guns when they were finally declared obsolete.
My guess is the guns went to some third world country as military aid.

 

[12Bravo20]

I had similar experiences as kBob did. The 1911A1 I carried during Desert Storm was your typical "rattle battle" that sounded like it would fall apart when shaken. I qualified either expert or sharp shooter (only missing expert by1) every time with it and it functioned just fine in the sand.

I get a laugh every time I watch shows on TV about how the US Army switched to the M9 in 1985. I was always in rapid deployment units or forward deployed units (Germany) and I carried a 1911A1 all the way till late 1992.

Onmilo, some of those units still had those weapons in their arms rooms at least till 91-92. I got to shoot a M1 Thompson and M14 while at Ft Devens in 91

 

[sleepyone]

When I was enlisted a member of our weapons squad that carried a 1911A1 failed to qualify so I loudly asked one of our NCOs to issue him some of the "Special Match Ammunition" we had and he caught on right away and set a partial can we had from an earlier shoot on the table and made a big deal of counting out the ammo needed for Qualification. Guess what? with the SPecial Match Ammo that was just the left over ball from four months ago the guy qualified.

Love that story! Perception is reality and is a very powerful thing indeed!

 

[JerryND]

I agree with kBob. It was usually the shooter. In the mid to late 60's our club had a number of DCM 1911A1's One was my favorite. Late Sun aft and I had everything else in the car except the 1911 and a running deer target at 100 yds. One of our more "opinionated" members showed up and asked what I was shooting at. I told him I was going to shoot at the deer target. A 45 at 100 yds? You can't even hit the backstop. Well the bet was a cup of coffee. Sat on the ground in front of the bench, two handed hold, locked wrists between knees and put 7 in the kill zone and 1 through the knee. The sweetest cup of coffee I ever had.

 

[Onmilo]

12Bravo20 I was still qualifying with an M14 in 1986, we had several in our arms room when I left.
I did Familiarization on maintnance and repair of the M9 but they had not yet been issued to rank and file when I left, still using 1911A1s & S&W and Ruger Service Six revolvers when I ETSed.
I HATED the M16 back then with a passion!

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I, too, had no problem qualifying with the .45 in the Navy.

Granted, back when they still had the .45 the course of fire was pathetic...at least from a submariner's viewpoint.

We got a total of 30 rounds for the course of fire, and the target was a man-sized, black silhouette. We shot from I think three different distances, both strong and weak hand. To qualify, all we had to do was get 20 out of 30 in the black.

I never once had a problem chewing a hole 2-3 inches in diameter center of mass with no strays. Since it was impossible to actually count all the holes, I always scored a perfect 30.

In the years I maintained my qualifications using the .45, I shot several different pistols and never once experienced ANY which gave me problems with either accuracy or reliability.

In fact, the only person I knew who had problems hitting anything was a guy in my division and the problem was very clearly him, not his weapon. We used to put a guy on either side of him on the firing lane, each shooting 10 rounds into his target during the course of fire just to get him to pass. I remember him scoring a 22 one time after that.




Oh...and the one time I did this for him, my grouping was still tight enough that there was still no way the instructor could count them...and I scored a perfect 30 again.




I'm sure there were lemons in the bunch, especially considering the sheer number of decades these pistols saw service. But I believe they were the exception rather than the rule.

 

[otasan56]

Way to go, Chief!