WWII Time Capsule 1911 & Holster ?

[RPRNY]

A long story, the short version of which is that today I got my father's WWII service pistol which has been in storage untouched since he died in 1972 when I was a small child. He finished the war as Lieutenant Commander and Skipper of a destroyer escort. Serial number of the 1911 dates it to 1943. In late 1943 or early 1944, he was XO of a destroyer escort in the Pacific and had his ship shot out from under him. Apparently he spent some time in the water. Presumably his sidearm went down with the ship and this 1911 has had one careful owner (and the Estate) since it was issued to him.



The slide was sticky when I took it out of the box but that was just old gun oil. All trigger parts sharp, barrel bright, a few use marks along slide and safety. Nice Parkerized finish and Bakelite grips. Lightly used at most. Very, very cool.

The holster raises questions. It is in great shape. Leather is supple. Verdigris on all the brass rivets. But it's black. And it has been died / polished black. On the back side, you can see the original brown. Any ideas why it would have been dyed black over the original brown?

 

[huntershooter]

A great heirloom with a wonderful history.

 

[jimbo555]

Great story and a beautiful pistol. What kind of hoops did you have to jump through to take possession of that in N.Y?

 

[rondog]

My guess on the black dye would just be his personal preference. No military reason to that I know of. But what a priceless heirloom treasure you have there! You're a lucky man.

 

[tark]

What an incredible gun, and story. I'm guessing your father shined his holster at the same time he shined his boots and they were black. It is probably shoe polish that blackened the holster. I would make no attempt to restore the holster to all brown, that two-tone is part of it's history.

 

[LUCKYDAWG13]

that is so Kewl you need to keep the story with that gun. and a picture of your Dad with it too

 

[Frank44]

What a great story and wonderful treasure. That gun and holster would be my proudest possession!!

 

[bannockburn]

Fantastic story and a great heirloom to share with family members for many years to come. Thanks for sharing.

 

[RPRNY]

Great story and a beautiful pistol. What kind of hoops did you have to jump through to take possession of that in N.Y?

Part of the long story. We recently moved to Colorado making taking possession that much easier.

Still curious about the black. Would there not have been a standard color by regulation? Perhaps in the high humidity environment of the Pacific, black was the only polish available and it was black or moldy.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

Aviators wear brown shoes, surface line officers wear black shoes. No aviators in a DE, but no doubt plenty of black shoe polish available.

 

[rcmodel]

The military transitioned from brown boots, shoes, and leather goods to Black in 1957.

I spent many a day on work details dying brown holsters black with leather die in the early 60's.

rc

 

[RPRNY]

The military transitioned from brown boots, shoes, and leather goods to Black in 1957.

I spent many a day on work details dying brown holsters black with leather die in the early 60's.

rc

Aha! After the war he remained in the Navy Reserves. My guess is that some time after 1957, it went black. That makes sense.

 

[dfariswheel]

Up until the mid-1950's military leather was Russet Brown. A lot of WWII leather was natural tan to speed production.
In the mid-50's they went to black leather.

A lot of holsters were left over from the war so a lot of them were dyed black so they could continue to be used.
Many were professionally "Ordnance" dyed, but a good many were dyed by their users.
A common practice was to dye just the front of the holster, leaving the back the original brown or tan color.
The reason for this was the first time a user ruined an expensive pair of khaki pants from the poor quality dye job rubbing off on the pants.

Best guess, you dad was either issued a dyed holster or picked one up at a later date.

 

[Jaymo]

Nice 1911A1. How did he manage to retain possession of it after he got out?
I've read a lot of tales of soldiers trying to sneak guns back and getting caught.

 

[jmr40]

At that time it was not at all uncommon for soldiers to get to keep weapons. I have a signed form given to my dad to bring back a WW-2 pistol in 1946. Found it in some of dad's stuff after he died. Had heard the story about the gun, it was stolen from his gear after he got back in the states and before he was discharged.

 

[herrwalther]

The good old days of military weapons. Can bring home your service weapon after WWII/Korea era days. Now the modern military won't allow you to bring home the Surefire flashlight on the side, your favorite grip you used, or even a backup sight.

 

[tark]

This forum is a great way to learn a lot of history, from men who were there and did that. Rcmodel , I just learned some valuable history from you and other posts. Thanks to you all!

 

[RPRNY]

Nice 1911A1. How did he manage to retain possession of it after he got out?
I've read a lot of tales of soldiers trying to sneak guns back and getting caught.

It's entirely possible he may have been light fingered. I have a Chelsea Naval Chronometer- the black resin wartime model - from his last ship, and a silver plated USN coffee service and tray ! I'm waiting for a 5" gun to show up one day...

 

[Jim Watson]

Entirely possible. The War Department was not in the habit of giving away service weapons. There were a lot more guns pilfered than awarded to the user.

 

[Camjr]

Great story. My dad (71 yrs old) has his father's Colt 1908 Hammerless .380 that was sidearm when he flew the mail in the 1920's. It's great to be able to pass things like these down through generations. Enjoy that 1911 and the memories that go with it.

 

[Lucky Derby]

That is just awesome. Great story and a great piece of family/military/US history.
Oh, and Welcome to Colorado.

 

[il.bill]

A great piece and a wonderful story. Thanks for sharing.

That last bit of added information has me smiling even more!

 

[dfariswheel]

There's a big difference between private Snuffy wanting to keep his .45 and a Lieutenant Commander and Captain of a destroyer escort.

Typically, people don't ask questions of LC's and Captains of ships.

 

[22250Rem]

I know that to you it's a priceless heirloom but I'd still have it appraised and if it was stored since 1972 it should be taken down for a good cleaning and lubrication and maintenance check. If you're not familiar with 1911's you could have it done by a reputable gunsmith or gunshop. Just so you know all the innards are OK also (peace of mind is a wonderful thing). What a wonderful heirloom with a rich history; it deserves a little TLC.

 

[RPRNY]

I know that to you it's a priceless heirloom but I'd still have it appraised and if it was stored since 1972 it should be taken down for a good cleaning and lubrication and maintenance check. If you're not familiar with 1911's you could have it done by a reputable gunsmith or gunshop. Just so you know all the innards are OK also (peace of mind is a wonderful thing). What a wonderful heirloom with a rich history; it deserves a little TLC.

Excellent advice. Took it down to component parts, removed all the slightly to very desiccated gun oil, checked and found virtually no wear, and reassembled lightly oiled. Ran 4 mags through it at the range and other than the appallingly tiny GI sights, it was a treat.