Maybe most of you won’t like this thread but here it goes. I am a gun enthusiast from Bosnia & Herzegovina. For more than 10 years I’ve been searching for the best 9mm I could find and I know and understand that this term “the best” is more of subjective nature. What’s best for you doesn’t mean it’s best for me and vice versa. After spending hours and hours on the Internet at different gun forums, watching a lot of videos, reading a lot of books on the subject, shooting thousands of rounds through different 9mm handguns, and checking the design of almost every popular 9mm pistol I could find and even performing some extreme torture tests with my personal pistols I came to the conclusion that the CZ85B and the Glock 17 are the best 9mm pistols “for me”!
I’ll explain latter why I prefer the Glock and the CZ75 design to some other excellent handgun designs but first I’d like to share my opinion and experience with a ton of new shooters who have the same question: What’s the best 9mm pistol out there? What’s the most durable and reliable combat 9mm? IMHO sure you are not going to get killed if you have chosen a Steyr M9 or XD/XD-m or a PX4 Storm or a Walther P99, these are all good, well-made, modern 9mm pistol, but when it comes to the track record, and it’s based on my experience and the experience of millions of law enforcement members around the world, not just the USA, you cannot go wrong with these: Beretta 92FS, CZ75 and CZ85, Glock 17, Glock 19, HK USP9 and HK P30, and SIG Sauer P226. Stick to one of these excellent 9mm pistols; maintain it and it will serve you well.
I have found out that the full size pistols are just slightly more reliable than the compact ones. Also, a full size handgun will handle the recoil better, it’s going to be more pleasurable to shoot, and not much bigger than its compact brother. If can’t carry it all the time just get a J-frame revolver for that special occasions.
Between those “super” 9mm pistols (Beretta 92FS, Glock 17 , Glock 19, HK P30, HK USP9, CZ75, CZ85 and SIG P226) I prefer the CZ85 and the Glock 17. Why?
1. Steel frame construction: Only the CZ has a steel frame. Yes, I know you can find an all steel Beretta or SIG but these are not standard and will weigh much more than the CZ. A steel frame handgun can be refinished very easy in event of war. Anodizing is more complicated process, and if you have a polymer frame handguns in event when handguns are no longer produced or similar occasions you cannot do anything about it. Also a steel frame can handle hard impacts better than an aluminum one and is not affected by the UV radiation.
2. CZ75/85 is ergonomically perfect design! I was not able to find a more agronomical handgun. And if it feels well in your hand you’ll just like to shoot it and will be more accurate with it.
3. Lowe bore axis: It is almost as good as Glock. I have found it, as many of the shooters have, to help you control the weapon better.
This is my CZ85B that I am going to keep:
4. Cocked & Locked carry ability: I prefer a consistent trigger. I am more accurate with my CZ85B under stress shooting double taps with it than with my father’s Beretta 92 Inox. That’s also the reason so many gun instructors still prefer the 1911 as it is the easiest weapon to use under stress. Just ask Clint Smith, Chuck Taylor… Also, as I shoot with high thumbs grip the safety lever just acts like a base for my right thumb.
5. It can be used safely with the grips removed. So if you damage the grips in the field no problem, your hand won’t interfere with pistol’s action. Try that with your Beretta or SIG.
6. CZ85B is an ambidextrous version of the CZ75B so if you have to put the safety off with your weak hand no problem. It gives you more options.
7. IT IS RELIABLE: Yes even though some guys like Todd Lois Green and John Wayne777 (I respect their opinions and I find their posts very interesting and informational). In my experience I’ve had some premature slide lock with my CZ85B (which I traded today for a new Gock 17) but I don’t remember any jams or failures to extract and similar. I know Todd himself used to change his opinions occasionally. First, he’s been working for Beretta, and then the Beretta 92FS was the most reliable weapon of them all! He’s been saying how this pistol is more durable than P226, how its 2nd generation locking block is good for at least 18 thousand rounds and even if it breaks you can still use the pistol for 700 rounds before you break the slide. Then he went to work for SIG, and then suddenly the SIG P226 became more durable pistol than the Beretta. Also, he admitted that in many cases he saw when the Beretta locking block breaks it jams the pistol completely and very often damages the frame or the slide. Also, then he admitted that some 2nd generation locking block broke in less or close to 5000 rounds! He himself says that you should change some Beretta’s parts as a part of preventive maintenance like the trigger spring and the recoil spring. Also, he himself changed some springs in that HK45 he’s been tasting at 12.5 thousand rounds, BUT when that CZ makes jams after it hasn’t been cleaned for thousands of rounds and the extractor spring has to be replaced at 14.000 round its suddenly a design which lacks durability and reliability.
Many, many civilian shooters from Croatia prefer the CZ to the Beretta, and some members of our special police forces (something like SWAT in USA) went back to CZ85Bs after switching to Glock 17s and 19s. My friend who I used to train with still carries one in the line of though even though he is able to carry a G17 or G19!
8. The CZ75 and its copies is one of the most used pistols in IPSC competitions around Europe along with Glocks and 1911s. That’s for sure speaks something about this pistol’s design.
So keep in mind that these are some of reasons I like the CZ85B, and objectively it doesn’t make it better pistol for the whole world. These are my personal preferences. But don’t drop this perfect design just because the “western” law enforcement agencies don’t use it, they don’t use the AK47 either, doe it make it unreliable and nondurable rifle?
As I have announced that I am going to get rid of my CZ, yes I did it today. I traded it for a new 3rd generation Glock 17! Yes I kept my silver polymer finished CZ85B. It will continue to be my spare pistol and “safe queen”. I had to get that Glock, as I’ve had very positive experience with the G17 and G19 I have owned in the past. I like the design and don’t have to mention it’s an AK47 in the world of handguns! I can carry it much more easily than the CZ, and it is more suitable for harsh conditions. I just cannot say enough about it. I used to say in the past: Glock 17, the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be!
So, choose your weapons wisely, choose some of the 9mm pistols I mentioned and if you don’t get a “lemon” you can thank me latter. Do not let some guys’ opinions about these pistols interfere with your choice. YOU have to try it and shoot it to decide yourself. Try to spend more time shooting and training both physically and with you weapons than arguing on different gun forums.
So, now I have a CZ85B in silver polymer finish, and a 3rd generation Glock 17. My father still has his Beretta 92FS Inox. I think we have some of the most reliable 9mm pistols on today’s market. Who knows, maybe I’ll get a J-frame .38 next.
I’ll explain latter why I prefer the Glock and the CZ75 design to some other excellent handgun designs but first I’d like to share my opinion and experience with a ton of new shooters who have the same question: What’s the best 9mm pistol out there? What’s the most durable and reliable combat 9mm? IMHO sure you are not going to get killed if you have chosen a Steyr M9 or XD/XD-m or a PX4 Storm or a Walther P99, these are all good, well-made, modern 9mm pistol, but when it comes to the track record, and it’s based on my experience and the experience of millions of law enforcement members around the world, not just the USA, you cannot go wrong with these: Beretta 92FS, CZ75 and CZ85, Glock 17, Glock 19, HK USP9 and HK P30, and SIG Sauer P226. Stick to one of these excellent 9mm pistols; maintain it and it will serve you well.
I have found out that the full size pistols are just slightly more reliable than the compact ones. Also, a full size handgun will handle the recoil better, it’s going to be more pleasurable to shoot, and not much bigger than its compact brother. If can’t carry it all the time just get a J-frame revolver for that special occasions.
Between those “super” 9mm pistols (Beretta 92FS, Glock 17 , Glock 19, HK P30, HK USP9, CZ75, CZ85 and SIG P226) I prefer the CZ85 and the Glock 17. Why?
1. Steel frame construction: Only the CZ has a steel frame. Yes, I know you can find an all steel Beretta or SIG but these are not standard and will weigh much more than the CZ. A steel frame handgun can be refinished very easy in event of war. Anodizing is more complicated process, and if you have a polymer frame handguns in event when handguns are no longer produced or similar occasions you cannot do anything about it. Also a steel frame can handle hard impacts better than an aluminum one and is not affected by the UV radiation.
2. CZ75/85 is ergonomically perfect design! I was not able to find a more agronomical handgun. And if it feels well in your hand you’ll just like to shoot it and will be more accurate with it.
3. Lowe bore axis: It is almost as good as Glock. I have found it, as many of the shooters have, to help you control the weapon better.
This is my CZ85B that I am going to keep:
4. Cocked & Locked carry ability: I prefer a consistent trigger. I am more accurate with my CZ85B under stress shooting double taps with it than with my father’s Beretta 92 Inox. That’s also the reason so many gun instructors still prefer the 1911 as it is the easiest weapon to use under stress. Just ask Clint Smith, Chuck Taylor… Also, as I shoot with high thumbs grip the safety lever just acts like a base for my right thumb.
5. It can be used safely with the grips removed. So if you damage the grips in the field no problem, your hand won’t interfere with pistol’s action. Try that with your Beretta or SIG.
6. CZ85B is an ambidextrous version of the CZ75B so if you have to put the safety off with your weak hand no problem. It gives you more options.
7. IT IS RELIABLE: Yes even though some guys like Todd Lois Green and John Wayne777 (I respect their opinions and I find their posts very interesting and informational). In my experience I’ve had some premature slide lock with my CZ85B (which I traded today for a new Gock 17) but I don’t remember any jams or failures to extract and similar. I know Todd himself used to change his opinions occasionally. First, he’s been working for Beretta, and then the Beretta 92FS was the most reliable weapon of them all! He’s been saying how this pistol is more durable than P226, how its 2nd generation locking block is good for at least 18 thousand rounds and even if it breaks you can still use the pistol for 700 rounds before you break the slide. Then he went to work for SIG, and then suddenly the SIG P226 became more durable pistol than the Beretta. Also, he admitted that in many cases he saw when the Beretta locking block breaks it jams the pistol completely and very often damages the frame or the slide. Also, then he admitted that some 2nd generation locking block broke in less or close to 5000 rounds! He himself says that you should change some Beretta’s parts as a part of preventive maintenance like the trigger spring and the recoil spring. Also, he himself changed some springs in that HK45 he’s been tasting at 12.5 thousand rounds, BUT when that CZ makes jams after it hasn’t been cleaned for thousands of rounds and the extractor spring has to be replaced at 14.000 round its suddenly a design which lacks durability and reliability.
Many, many civilian shooters from Croatia prefer the CZ to the Beretta, and some members of our special police forces (something like SWAT in USA) went back to CZ85Bs after switching to Glock 17s and 19s. My friend who I used to train with still carries one in the line of though even though he is able to carry a G17 or G19!
8. The CZ75 and its copies is one of the most used pistols in IPSC competitions around Europe along with Glocks and 1911s. That’s for sure speaks something about this pistol’s design.
So keep in mind that these are some of reasons I like the CZ85B, and objectively it doesn’t make it better pistol for the whole world. These are my personal preferences. But don’t drop this perfect design just because the “western” law enforcement agencies don’t use it, they don’t use the AK47 either, doe it make it unreliable and nondurable rifle?
As I have announced that I am going to get rid of my CZ, yes I did it today. I traded it for a new 3rd generation Glock 17! Yes I kept my silver polymer finished CZ85B. It will continue to be my spare pistol and “safe queen”. I had to get that Glock, as I’ve had very positive experience with the G17 and G19 I have owned in the past. I like the design and don’t have to mention it’s an AK47 in the world of handguns! I can carry it much more easily than the CZ, and it is more suitable for harsh conditions. I just cannot say enough about it. I used to say in the past: Glock 17, the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be!
So, choose your weapons wisely, choose some of the 9mm pistols I mentioned and if you don’t get a “lemon” you can thank me latter. Do not let some guys’ opinions about these pistols interfere with your choice. YOU have to try it and shoot it to decide yourself. Try to spend more time shooting and training both physically and with you weapons than arguing on different gun forums.
So, now I have a CZ85B in silver polymer finish, and a 3rd generation Glock 17. My father still has his Beretta 92FS Inox. I think we have some of the most reliable 9mm pistols on today’s market. Who knows, maybe I’ll get a J-frame .38 next.
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