Zen and CCWs

[AZAndy]

Well, ya know, there are some aspects of Buddhism and Zen that can be useful to a shooter, especially "mindfulness." Brian Enos seems to be real big on that, and it makes sense. It's more than just "focus," although that's pretty helpful too. More like a reduction in the sense of self, since that usually just gets in the way of what you're trying to do.

As yet another Buddhist (oh no! the board's being overrun!), I usually cringe when I see the word "Zen" used as a synonym for "metaphysical" or suchlike, but there are definitely usages for the shooter in some of Zen. I'm not suggesting that one needs to take the precepts in order to shoot well, you understand-- and many people arrive at a state of mindfulness all by themselves while shooting (or playing the piano, or whatever) without ever having heard of Zen.

Andy

 

[Saturnine]

If you're interested in that sort of thing, try reading The Unfettered Mind: Writings of the Zen Master to the Sword Master by Takuan Soho. It's three letters written by Takuan to Yagyu Munenori(arguably one of the greatest swordsman of all time). It's mostly about how to think while you train and fight, it's also got some neat insights into feudal Japan from the perspective of it's citizens.

It's up there with Musashi's Book of Five Rings, Sun Tzu's Art of War, and Yagyu Munenori's The Life giving Sword as essential eastern books on the subject of combat.

 

[B yond]

I'm all for any sort of "code" that encourages personal responsibility and continuing practice with your weapon. Just don't wear your ninja boots to the range.

 

[86thecat]

Zen is not ninja.

Zen is Truth,

and Truth is a good thing when armed.

 

[Sawyer]

not directed at anyone in this thread, but I find the whole concept of Zen mindfulness in general to be fairly corny and impossible to maintain, and the people that espouse it as higher form of thinking are pretty annoying, too. The example of peeling potatoes is often used, a mindful person is completely in the moment of peeling, and after preparing the food, he/she's mindfully tasting the food and noting the flavors, etc. It seems like too much mental activity, although it isn't really focus or concentration as such. Most modern day Asians (like me) have no use for this stuff, it's interesting other cultures are gravitating towards it, though.
Now, having said that, mindfulness can be useful in shooting.

 

[Crunker1337]

Many aspects of Zen thinking can be useful in the modern world, but one must bear in mind that it was developed in a very different world--one where, for instance, aggressors would often display some sort of mercy to one's family.
It's a very different world today, aggressors are more sadistic and merciless than ever, so many Zen ideals aren't useful any more. Doesn't mean that the whole ideology is useless, it just means that it needs to be adapted to modern society.

 

[Standing Wolf]

I think, given an ideal world, no-one would carry concealed.

Open carry is much more comfortable.

 

[gunsmith]

30 or so years ago

when I was younger, and much smarter and far more advanced spiritually and intellectually then every one else, I read "Zen and and the Art of Archery"
I think some guy named Herrigel wrote it, it was a pretty good book.
Later some guy wrote something about zen and motorcycles that sold more then zen and archery.



grasshopper!

 

[The Annoyed Man]

They must use and be the weapon in order to create a world in which weapons are no longer needed.

In an ideal world where there is no need for weapons, I'd still be taking my Ma-Deuce to the range to shoot at junked cars.

{snip}

An ideal world would not be weapon free, it would be violence-free.

You are wise beyond your years, oh green one.

 

[gunsmith]

RKBAbob!

And for the true CCW'er, there is no higher ideal than to keep his sidearm in its holster forever.

great quote, I disarmed a drunk who had pointed a gun at me, many people said I should have shot the gun I had on me, my little .357 never cleared leather.

 

[BHPshooter]

Stop romanticizing and assigning terms and values where none are deserved or needed.

My, my, aren't we the spoilsport?

The OP makes many valid points, and there are several parallels between Samurai and CCW philosophies. Just because they're not identical doesn't mean that the point is worthless.

I didn't hear a single thing about "being a sheepdog" or any other "knighthood" blather, so accept his point for what it is and get down off that high horse.

The schools of thought are similar -- the whole "sic vis pacem, para bellum" thing -- and that's what he was trying to say.

Wes

 

[Archer1945]

This posting made me think of a news video I recently saw where the police had to shoot a person and some one asked why the same people who did the shooting were the first ones to give first aid to the person they had just shot. Another officer who was there but had not been involved in the actual shooting said, "Because that is human being they just had to shoot". Nothing was said about they wanted the BG to live so he could be put on trial, he was a human that had to be stopped. and in the quickest way, before doing violence to others.

A true warrior does have this code. Eleanor Roosevelt knew it when she made her comment about how nasty, immoral and GOOD the US Marines were.

 

[Mongo the Mutterer]

Can I put that in my sig?

B my guest, I am honored...

 

[def4pos8]

Liko81

Your original post describes. . .me.

I don't claim to be a Buddhist but exhibit certain characteristics peculiar to Zen practitioners. I didn't realize this until I had a long and very special conversation with an enormously important family friend who is reputed to be the reincarnation of a 17th century Vietnamese scholar.

I'll try to send a PM your way. Most folks on this continent aren't open to some things. Don't worry about them.

 

[nwilliams]

I've been doing Aikido for many years and that's as close to being a Samurai as I consider myself

Although I will say that my years of Aikido training has undoubtedly influenced the way in which I shoot, I tend to take a very Martial Arts style stance when I shoot and the coordination and muscle alignment practice I get from Martial Arts training certainly has a positive effect on my shooting skills. Mentally I also tend to go into the same focussed frame of mind when I'm on the range as I do when I'm in the dojo, it feels the same to me.

So honestly I think this is a valid point you are making between Zen and shooting. I've been doing Martial Arts for over twenty years and been shooting even longer, so over time I have noticed connections between the two and not just from a personal defensive perspective but mentally as well.

I do think however that to truly see the connections between zen and or Martial Arts and shooting, one really has to be involved in both. If you don't understand one or the other its going to be very difficult to understand the connection that some people see.

I'm not going to read to deeply into it however, I think shooting and Zen can coexist but it depends solely on the person. I don't really see a great connection between Zen and carrying a gun, I don't feel like carrying a gun changes my state of mind at all, other than the fact I feel more secure

 

[Richmond]

zen, martial arts in general

I had thought to post on this thread earlier, but it was a crazy day. I got home, and found out there was more to do, so it is 10:30 and I just finished getting some information an documents off to an attorney covering a hearing for me in another city - so I am tired and still have to go work out!

Just a few random thoughts, though. I have been doing Japanese martial arts for a long time - started Japanese karate in 1973, still plugging away at it. I guess I was shooting seriously before I got any deeper into Japanese arts, but around 1990 I started studying both Zen (Soto school) and Japanese sword arts. I continue in Zen practice as well as training in and teaching both a gendai (modern, formed after the Meiji Restoration) and Koryu (classical sword style).

A couple of things:

1. There is a lot of "Zen and_______" and "the Zen of ____" stuff around - it sounds cool, but is unrelated to Zen or the east
2. The actual correlation between the samurai and Zen practice is fairly controversial

"Understanding" in this area is fairly complex. Popular media produces a lot of ideas and images. Still, many Japanese writers, including some well-known academics, support the view that Zen was an important facet of the samurai's mental training. The historical truth is more likely that the pairing of Zen and the practice of the Japanese warrior class comes very late in history.

During most of Japan's history, the average warrior was more likely to practice one of the forms of esoteric Buddhism, such as today's Shingon or Tendai sects. As a matter of fact, few schools of Japanese koryu have any association with Zen. The Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, mentioned above in connection with Yagyu Munenori and The Unfettered Mind is an exception, as is the school I study under, Mugai Ryu Iaihyodo.

A lot of the perception in this area is more likely due to projection by Westerners; for example, Herrigels Zen and the Art of Archery , while a wonderful book in it's way, has largely been debunked as descriptive of mainstream or actual Japanese kyudo practice:

http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/jjrs/pdf/586.pdf

On the other hand, any number of academic articles by Japanese scholars expound on the Zen – Budo connection. As I said, this is a controversial subject, about which there is a tremendous amount of academic material available.

Where does that leave us? I think it is up to the individual to determine both what lessons they learn and how they apply them to their lives. For me, I have been studying the Japanese way, both generally and as applied to Japan’s martial culture, for many years. Unlike many Japanese sword schools, both of the sword arts I train in are “live blade” arts – practitioners use a live steel blade in most facets of training*. This produces an awareness that even a slight misstep will result in consequences – potentially serious consequences. The training, as is the Japanese fashion, is very, very precise. In inheriting the art in a line of succession one thing we do is try to understand the mindset of the men who practiced this art in a time when personal combat was a daily possibility.

How does this translate to CCW? No, I am not a ninja wannabe – I am a 53 year old trial lawyer/college professor/martial arts instructor. I find tremendous parallels in honing the precise physical movements – whether presenting the sword or presenting the firearm. Lets face it – the Japanese have a definite way when it comes to perfecting subtle physical actions. Trying to find the calm but intense, focused state when acting. On the other hand, I am not going the Herrigel route of “Zen and Trying to Hit Stuff” as a means of spiritual seeking or practice. Or trying to adopt the mindset of the feudal era Japanese of samurai class – remember, it is historically correct that the bushi, or warrior could and often did, kill over insults or breaches of the intricate rituals of Japanese etiquette.


*Of course, a clear similarity with shooting can be seen here. Just as I “need” multiple firearms of the same model in the same caliber, I don’t have a katana. I have roughly 15 katana, several wakizashi (short sword) and several tanto (knife size), mostly custom, as well as tons of other equipment, and a small collection of Scottish, Irish and Viking edged weapons, shields, etc!

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

That's great that some of you guys don't buy this "bs" but i mean, if this guy wants to point out some things that helps himself and wants to share with us, whats the harm?

You don't get to decide when the thread is "over".

You are on a discussion forum, that's how it works, you discuss, not decide someone is wrong and declare victory.

anyways...

Agreed.

Someone's been watching too many movies.

I don't carry a gun because of "bushido", "samurai", "Zen", "true warriorhood", "becoming the weapon", "becoming a deadly weapon", etc.

I carry it to protect me and my loved ones. If someone desires to kill me, I will shoot them to stop it.

Guns are just tools. Stop romanticizing and assigning terms and values where none are deserved or needed.

edited: And I'm a Buddhist.

I was with you until you told the OP to stop thinking in a certain way. This thread is gun related, and this is still America, so the thread stays. The OP is free to romanticize and think/feel however he wants, AND he's free to share it with us as long as it's gun related. If you don't like it, click the back button on your browser and choose another thread. Or start your own. Just ope no one comments on on your thread that your way of thinking is wrong and you shouldn't post it.

 

[nwilliams]

Nice post Richmond! You summed up my feelings exactly, well done!

I couldn't agree more with the correlation between Japanese sword practice and presentation of a handgun, very good connection that totally slipped my mind. We don't use live blades in our dojo but we do a lot Boken practice and I've been dabbling in Iaido for the past few years. As you know there is a whole art to properly drawing a Japanese sword, the same idea can be applied to the drawing of a gun from the holster.

Anyway I enjoyed reading your post

 

[def4pos8]

Richmond

Thanks for that one. --and you have the courage to admit to being a trial lawyer!

Great appreciation from one who has served -- way too long for his own good.

 

[ctdonath]

A key point in the lead post:

the true warrior avoids combat for its own end.

Learning combat tactics should be just one more thing a well-rounded human learns, and learns to the point that doing it flows fluidly, naturally, competently, harmoniously, and effectively - and the actor should be in the moment.
Application of it should not, however, be sought out as an end unto itself - just as a great many things we do should be done only because they should be done, and not as their own end. Sweeping floors is something one needs to do, and one should do well, and one should do while "at one with" the dust & broom, and should be done because floors should be clean and tidy, and one should appreciate the act as a tiny bit of the natural flow of the universe, but one does not sweep a floor purely for the thrill of sweeping a floor. Likewise, learning and engaging in combat is something one should do for the sake of enhancing life, but not as its own end (as so many soldiers and armies have gone out to pick a fight solely for the sake of picking a fight).

Indeed, learn a tool, learn an art, and enjoy practicing it. Make the tool part of yourself, and make yourself competent with the "meta-tool" - able to use anything to a given end if need be. Come to do it fluidly, effortlessly, effectively, even unto losing one's life therein if that be the natural end ... but don't become so enamored with the art of combat as to go out picking lethal fights.