Zinc, Copper, Lead futures all down!
- Thread starter ArmedBear
- Start date
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Chrome
Member
Sorry, but the demand is exceeding the supply. The prices are not going to go down.
Later,
Chrome...
Later,
Chrome...
Bartkowski
Member
Where did you hear this from? I read that the prices of metal were so high because china was buying more metal than ever. Has anyone heard/read this?
El Tejon
Member
China's not going to slow down. They are just getting warmed up.
Where did I hear this?
Check the commodity prices for December Copper, Zinc and Lead.
Foreign stock markets are down. Expectations of unabated growth worldwide, with no corrections, have diminished considerably. Demand for raw materials is contingent on demand for finished goods.
My house may not be worth as much as it was a year ago, but if I can save money on ammo...
Check the commodity prices for December Copper, Zinc and Lead.
Foreign stock markets are down. Expectations of unabated growth worldwide, with no corrections, have diminished considerably. Demand for raw materials is contingent on demand for finished goods.
My house may not be worth as much as it was a year ago, but if I can save money on ammo...
30 cal slob
Member
LME copper ... 
.cheese.-
Economics lecture?
Go for it.
This has been an exponential rise due to demand increasing far more rapidly than the higher price can spur development of copper mining and reclamation.
The price will not drop to 2000 levels. It might, however, find a new equilibrium that is lower than the peaks we've recently seen, and flatten the slope in the graph above.
Of course, when the copper's there, and the price would make it well worth mining, it's still possible for that mining to not occur.
But that's not economics... Unless you mean the economics of NPO fundraising...
Economics lecture?
Go for it.
This has been an exponential rise due to demand increasing far more rapidly than the higher price can spur development of copper mining and reclamation.
The price will not drop to 2000 levels. It might, however, find a new equilibrium that is lower than the peaks we've recently seen, and flatten the slope in the graph above.
Of course, when the copper's there, and the price would make it well worth mining, it's still possible for that mining to not occur.
But that's not economics... Unless you mean the economics of NPO fundraising...
http://money.cnn.com/data/world_markets/
Just today Japan went down 5.42%.
The Heng Seng went down ~9.3% in the past week.
We took a pretty good thrashing in the last month, but it's starting to improve. We peaked at 14000 in July, and are just now getting over 13000.
With the drop in the HSI will we see a short term drop in metal prices? Certainly, but over the long term the prices will continue to go up(When demand > supply, prices go up).
Just today Japan went down 5.42%.
The Heng Seng went down ~9.3% in the past week.
We took a pretty good thrashing in the last month, but it's starting to improve. We peaked at 14000 in July, and are just now getting over 13000.
With the drop in the HSI will we see a short term drop in metal prices? Certainly, but over the long term the prices will continue to go up(When demand > supply, prices go up).
no.... it's not even necessary.
I'll just say this, there is a HUGE, MONUMENTAL jump in logic, requiring a massive set of assumptions, in what you are saying.
You're basically saying this:
Some buyers will at a future point in time buy some of the raw materials used in ammunition manufacturing at a lower price than previous buyers had agreed to.
=
The price paid by consumers of final goods using those raw materials will decrease.
----
See how much is missing there? Your looking at SOME buyers of SOME products of a final good. Without analyzing the individual market for that final good! Not to mention there is not enough data to support the notion of any long term trend here.
I'll leave it at that and save the lecture. I could go on and on about all that isn't taken into account here though.
MKEITH
Member
There is not going to be a drop in any meatal prices anytime soon.Steel has leveled off for the past two quarters,but stainless,aluminum,copper,lead,and high nickle alloys are all sceduled to go up next quarter,regardless of the going rate for suppliers.I'm in the metal industry, and the company i work for watches this very closely,and keeps us posted at least twice a month. The demand has not gone down at all, so regaurdless of what the suppliers are getting the metal for,the prices for their customers isn't going to go down.
.cheese.
Uh, maybe you don't reload shotshells, but I do.
The price of lead shot has doubled in the past year. The reason is the price of lead. There have been no other changes in the marketplace.
It would take a leap in logic to explain how, when changes in the price of lead have led directly to a similar changes in the price of lead shot, a change in the price of lead would not lead to a change in the price of lead shot (for which the demand is quite flexible and has dropped dramatically with higher prices).
Perhaps you can explain how this would work.
Again, I don't think this will bring us back to 2000 prices. I do, however, see a break in the steady upward climb of these commodity prices to be a good sign, or at least a better sign than an increase. It could change tomorrow. Hard to say.
Uh, maybe you don't reload shotshells, but I do.
The price of lead shot has doubled in the past year. The reason is the price of lead. There have been no other changes in the marketplace.
It would take a leap in logic to explain how, when changes in the price of lead have led directly to a similar changes in the price of lead shot, a change in the price of lead would not lead to a change in the price of lead shot (for which the demand is quite flexible and has dropped dramatically with higher prices).
Perhaps you can explain how this would work.
Again, I don't think this will bring us back to 2000 prices. I do, however, see a break in the steady upward climb of these commodity prices to be a good sign, or at least a better sign than an increase. It could change tomorrow. Hard to say.
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BobTheTomato
Member
Don't lose hope they are reopening zinc mines in TN.
ArmedBear - I'll give you that lead shot prices are more likely to have a closer relationship to raw lead prices. I assumed you were referring to ammo in general, however, even with that - lead futures is NOT the same as overall future lead prices. For lead futures to be down currently only means that buyers aren't as confident in locking in a higher price today for tomorrow's lead.
There still is much room for interpretation of why and what that means for the future. You can't definitively say that because lead futures are down, the overall price of lead WILL decrease.
All I'm seeing is currently a bit of uncertainty by investors as to what the future holds.
Things to think about (trust me, it's not all ammo related) - On the micro end, where are lead-acid battery sales at? - just an example
on a more macro side, What is the international demand situation? China has been buying a lot of our lead, what's going on over there?
What's going on with international supply? Peru produces a huge amount of lead. etc etc etc.
There still is much room for interpretation of why and what that means for the future. You can't definitively say that because lead futures are down, the overall price of lead WILL decrease.
All I'm seeing is currently a bit of uncertainty by investors as to what the future holds.
Things to think about (trust me, it's not all ammo related) - On the micro end, where are lead-acid battery sales at? - just an example
on a more macro side, What is the international demand situation? China has been buying a lot of our lead, what's going on over there?
What's going on with international supply? Peru produces a huge amount of lead. etc etc etc.
thexrayboy
Member
I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. While it may be possible that the rate at which ammo prices are increasing may diminish, the chances that they will "improve" is minimal. While the futures prices for metals are down they can easily rise again as soon as the market opens next week. Also there are a lot of other factors involved in making and marketing ammunition besides the cost of lead etc. Ammo prices may stop screaming towards the sky like an out of control missile but I doubt they will plummet back to the "good ole days" prices.
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
I never thought I would see the day where a 25lb bag of lead shot would
fetch $49.95; but folks its here~!
fetch $49.95; but folks its here~!
30 cal slob
Member
damn Chinese and commodity speculators. :banghead:
beaucoup ammo
Member
Looking down the road, after reading these posts, seems prices will only go up. The Squeeze is on and we'd best stock up, look for bargains and do our best to avoid Another dependence.
This market is insane. Sitting, watching in real time is gut wretching. It's like an NBA game..the last quarter is always the most exciting.
A global perspective is neccessary to see what's coming down the road. "Forewarned is forearmed." Be prepared.
IMO, reliance on someone else is not a good thing.
This market is insane. Sitting, watching in real time is gut wretching. It's like an NBA game..the last quarter is always the most exciting.
A global perspective is neccessary to see what's coming down the road. "Forewarned is forearmed." Be prepared.
IMO, reliance on someone else is not a good thing.
In many regards we have reached the peak of industrialization and maximum effeciency in production and distribution for many products. Places like walmart took all the slack out and priced items as low as competitively possible.
However the population is only rising. Third world nations that have looked up and desired to be like Europe and the United States are catching up quickly and starting to mirror our economies at a rapid pace. Places like China with 20% of the world population is rapidly going from a production nation to a consumer nation.
We in America have long enjoyed being the main consumer of the world. Third world nations around the globe built economies on harvesting raw materials and making products for us and a few other nations. The world was our factory, and we were the consumer. This has allowed us to become a nation of services. Where we create far less than we actualy consume, yet can accomplish this due to complex global economic policies that keep materials outside our borders cheap, and finished products inside our borders valuable. It has allowed us to wield more authority and power globaly than our production actualy warrants.
Basicly we were the elite aristocrats, and the rest of the world toiled for us. Not directly, but through global economic policies. So 1 hour of an American's time was worth several of someone else's time in many nation. This means for an 8 hour workday we have come to expect an amount of material wealth equal to 50-100 hours of production in the global economy.
Well this is rapidly changing. Many nations that were producers are becoming massive consumers themselves trying to mirror our lifestyle. The catch however is that very lifestyle is not possible without poor producing nations to compensate. For every single aristocrat's lifestyle several serfs must toil. The number of serfs is going down, and the number of aristocrats is increasing.
The truth is if the wealth of the world was distributed evenly our quality of lives would be much lower and what an hour's pay could purchase would be much lower than it is. The fact that much of our nation's current economy is based primarily on services and not on raw goods or products shows this. We are consuming a lot per capita and producing very little per capita. Someone sitting in an office for example is not producing tangible goods, yet is making currency that they use to purchase many such goods. You can only have so many such individuals before an economy cannot sustain itself. We get around this because it is a global economy so more of the serfs are outside our borders than inside them. The relationship is the same however.
So as the serfs decrease, become wise to the situation, and start to approach our level of consumption, the quality of life for the aristocrat nations will decrease. This will happen in the form of being able to buy less goods per hour of work. We will see that as the price of raw goods going up relative to our currency.
This is the result of modernization of much of the world. Enjoy what we have now, because in 30-40 years what Americans will be able to purchase per hour of work will be far less.
The economic situation is not that much different from fuedal Europe. The man difference now is the serfs are far away outside our borders, but it still takes several of them to support the lifestyle of every single American lifestyle. Production capabilities are higher due to industrialization and modern production techniques, but our lifestyles proportional consume more.
So not just Ammo, but everything is going to get more expensive that we do not already produce ourselves. As our population increases and land for agriculture and other similar activities decreases, (activities that require large amounts of cheap land) what we produce ourselves will become more expensive as well. Basicly as the supply and demand for real estate increases real estate costs, the cost of domestic food will increase as well because the land it is made on is worth more and more, and will be converted into homes. So even domestic products we are not dependent on foriegn materials for will dramaticly increase in cost.
So the economy of the world is at a major turning point. The lifestyles our nation has enjoyed for the last hundred years is going to come to an end within this century as the rest of the world becomes what only we and a few others were, large consumers per capita.
However the population is only rising. Third world nations that have looked up and desired to be like Europe and the United States are catching up quickly and starting to mirror our economies at a rapid pace. Places like China with 20% of the world population is rapidly going from a production nation to a consumer nation.
We in America have long enjoyed being the main consumer of the world. Third world nations around the globe built economies on harvesting raw materials and making products for us and a few other nations. The world was our factory, and we were the consumer. This has allowed us to become a nation of services. Where we create far less than we actualy consume, yet can accomplish this due to complex global economic policies that keep materials outside our borders cheap, and finished products inside our borders valuable. It has allowed us to wield more authority and power globaly than our production actualy warrants.
Basicly we were the elite aristocrats, and the rest of the world toiled for us. Not directly, but through global economic policies. So 1 hour of an American's time was worth several of someone else's time in many nation. This means for an 8 hour workday we have come to expect an amount of material wealth equal to 50-100 hours of production in the global economy.
Well this is rapidly changing. Many nations that were producers are becoming massive consumers themselves trying to mirror our lifestyle. The catch however is that very lifestyle is not possible without poor producing nations to compensate. For every single aristocrat's lifestyle several serfs must toil. The number of serfs is going down, and the number of aristocrats is increasing.
The truth is if the wealth of the world was distributed evenly our quality of lives would be much lower and what an hour's pay could purchase would be much lower than it is. The fact that much of our nation's current economy is based primarily on services and not on raw goods or products shows this. We are consuming a lot per capita and producing very little per capita. Someone sitting in an office for example is not producing tangible goods, yet is making currency that they use to purchase many such goods. You can only have so many such individuals before an economy cannot sustain itself. We get around this because it is a global economy so more of the serfs are outside our borders than inside them. The relationship is the same however.
So as the serfs decrease, become wise to the situation, and start to approach our level of consumption, the quality of life for the aristocrat nations will decrease. This will happen in the form of being able to buy less goods per hour of work. We will see that as the price of raw goods going up relative to our currency.
This is the result of modernization of much of the world. Enjoy what we have now, because in 30-40 years what Americans will be able to purchase per hour of work will be far less.
The economic situation is not that much different from fuedal Europe. The man difference now is the serfs are far away outside our borders, but it still takes several of them to support the lifestyle of every single American lifestyle. Production capabilities are higher due to industrialization and modern production techniques, but our lifestyles proportional consume more.
So not just Ammo, but everything is going to get more expensive that we do not already produce ourselves. As our population increases and land for agriculture and other similar activities decreases, (activities that require large amounts of cheap land) what we produce ourselves will become more expensive as well. Basicly as the supply and demand for real estate increases real estate costs, the cost of domestic food will increase as well because the land it is made on is worth more and more, and will be converted into homes. So even domestic products we are not dependent on foriegn materials for will dramaticly increase in cost.
So the economy of the world is at a major turning point. The lifestyles our nation has enjoyed for the last hundred years is going to come to an end within this century as the rest of the world becomes what only we and a few others were, large consumers per capita.
General Geoff
Member
Zoogster,
The United States hasn't been as you describe it for that long. I'd say maybe 40 years, tops. We were still very much a manufacturing/production based economy, well into the 1970s.
That said, I agree with you that we're now going to be knocked down a few pegs, economically, with the rise of China and India, along with a bunch of other countries who are reaping the rewards of industrialization. Just remember that Industrialization isn't the final frontier in a regional economy; America is just taking the next step forward. Sure we don't specialize in manufacturing and producing physical products; but I don't see India churning out software like the United States does, nor do I see China on the cutting edge of nanotechnology.
The United States hasn't been as you describe it for that long. I'd say maybe 40 years, tops. We were still very much a manufacturing/production based economy, well into the 1970s.
That said, I agree with you that we're now going to be knocked down a few pegs, economically, with the rise of China and India, along with a bunch of other countries who are reaping the rewards of industrialization. Just remember that Industrialization isn't the final frontier in a regional economy; America is just taking the next step forward. Sure we don't specialize in manufacturing and producing physical products; but I don't see India churning out software like the United States does, nor do I see China on the cutting edge of nanotechnology.
Zoogster, your analysis is basically marxist (not trying to be confrontational, just saying...). But economy is not about a fixed amount of wealth being distributed across different nations. Global free trade benefits all nations (in general), both the "serfs" and the "aristocrats". The "serfs" cannot become "aristocrats" without first being "serfs". China would not be advancing beyond the cheap producer stage if they hadn't first been there -- getting tons of foreing money into their country, paying wages to tons of people who were previously working on farms and not being able to buy anything. Now they can buy stuff, and so their economy grows.
Of course, free trade equalizes things, but for the foreseeable future, there are enough countries low enough on the economic ladder to where production can move. Indeed, Africa seems to be an untapped resource in this regard. Yes, they do not have the infrastructure, but when cheap labor in China becomes less cheap, there will be more incentive to fix that problem...
If, in some distant future, every country in the world passes beyond the cheap labor stage of economic development, things will equalize, and there would actually be LESS global trade, because there is no longer much difference between the labor costs and productivity of different nations. In that situation, the "aristocrats" would start producing more again. But that doesn't mean we will go back to a lower standard of living -- productivity is also going up all the time thanks to technology.
Of course, free trade equalizes things, but for the foreseeable future, there are enough countries low enough on the economic ladder to where production can move. Indeed, Africa seems to be an untapped resource in this regard. Yes, they do not have the infrastructure, but when cheap labor in China becomes less cheap, there will be more incentive to fix that problem...
If, in some distant future, every country in the world passes beyond the cheap labor stage of economic development, things will equalize, and there would actually be LESS global trade, because there is no longer much difference between the labor costs and productivity of different nations. In that situation, the "aristocrats" would start producing more again. But that doesn't mean we will go back to a lower standard of living -- productivity is also going up all the time thanks to technology.
No marxist would be advocating altering that to distrubute the wealth evenly, that is not my perspective.
I am not advocating any such change whatsoever. Such changes ignore human nature and have a negative impact on motivation and therefore overall production and quality.
I am simply pointing out that change is happening regardless and will continue to do so at a rapid pace making the value of American citizens' time decrease.
Currently for every hour you work you can purchase many hours worth of someone else's time in the form of products made from cheap material from abroad, or produced abroad themselves.
Certain other ways exist that accomplish this disproportional distribution of wealth. Lets take oil for example. Oil is pretty cheap in foriegn locations. It then is sent to refineries that turn it into something that is suddenly worth disproportionaly more than the base material and the cost of conversion. This means that for another nation to purchase it would distribute more to the American economy overall. The same principle holds true for many raw materials and products. They enter out borders cheap, and become valuable while here. This artificialy makes our economy worth more than it actualy would be based on contribution to the global economy. There is many other far more complex examples.
Going into banking would take several pages, but the end result is the same.
Now that others are competing for these finite resources the advances in productivity only alter the end result ever so slightly. Now that less nations are allowing us to deal with most of the steps that disproportionaly make our value higher than our contribution in the world, we are losing our monopoly on what has kept us on top. Europe and the US are no longer necessary for the foriegn economies. Our banking policies are currently compensating to keep us on top, but that can only last so long.
If we can start a few more wars between other serf nations, loan them money for conflicts, and then further put them in debt for rebuilding costs and enjoy the deals they must then provide for us to pay off thier debt we can continue to remain on top. That means we need a lot of global conflict though to compensate for China.
The reality is we needed to crush China's economy while it was still not a major threat. Research Taiwan and China's relationship if you do not think we have desired this for a long time. China has just been too powerful and continues to grow in power, disrupting our global hold on the world market.
China does not recognize Taiwan. Taiwan was part of China before the communist revolution. We backed the Capitalists, and others back Mao and the communists. The communists won and thier enemies fled to the island of Taiwan. There has been a stalemate since, and we have vowed to help Taiwan militarily if China makes a move to reclaim that lost portion of thier nation they view as thier own. So China is posed to be a big threat to us at some point. If China makes a move and we do not, then China is the new Super Power and the US will lose most of its prestige. However if China makes a move and we do as well, then we face serious Nuclear war.
China will eventualy surpass the US is capabilities, and already vhastly surpasses us in population. China's economy is also less susceptible to war time constraints than ours because they control the media and can more or less control the mood and continue producing war goods in a time of war. America is very susceptible to panic and as seen in 9/11 the media can focus on people dying and halt the economy. How many Americans would continue to keep the country running if Nuclear bombs were going off in places? How many Chinese? The chinese could easily win in any lengthy war based on morale alone.
This leaves us with the only real option of supporting internal conflict within China like we did with Afghanistan and the later the chechen rebels in Russia and similar situations in other nations. However China has been very good at totaly crushing internal disent without other rebels or the outside world hearing much about it. Tibet completely faded into history without anyone bating an eye. They killed off rebels, and moved in large numbers of settlers to replace the culture they didn't like. They control the media so rebel accomplishments never boost morale in likeminded individuals. They execute large numbers of political dissenters each year, and even have moble execution buses to allow for the easy harvesting of organs in all locations to make even that profitable.
China will become the new world leader this century, and the Chinese mentality is going to create a much more sinister world than the Western mentality that has influanced the world in the past couple centuries.
This is just world politics, whether you or I disagree or not, it is how things happen. It effects everything from ammo costs, to freedom, to quality of life for the citizens. It does not matter if the citizens do not wish to be bothered with such thoughts, they will be effected regardless.
I am not advocating any such change whatsoever. Such changes ignore human nature and have a negative impact on motivation and therefore overall production and quality.
I am simply pointing out that change is happening regardless and will continue to do so at a rapid pace making the value of American citizens' time decrease.
Currently for every hour you work you can purchase many hours worth of someone else's time in the form of products made from cheap material from abroad, or produced abroad themselves.
Certain other ways exist that accomplish this disproportional distribution of wealth. Lets take oil for example. Oil is pretty cheap in foriegn locations. It then is sent to refineries that turn it into something that is suddenly worth disproportionaly more than the base material and the cost of conversion. This means that for another nation to purchase it would distribute more to the American economy overall. The same principle holds true for many raw materials and products. They enter out borders cheap, and become valuable while here. This artificialy makes our economy worth more than it actualy would be based on contribution to the global economy. There is many other far more complex examples.
Going into banking would take several pages, but the end result is the same.
There is a finite number of resources beyond mere labor costs. These are more complex to factor in, and require lengthy examples to demonstrate, but the oil one above is one. However as consumers increase, the finite resources do not. People can tap those finite resources faster, but they are still finite. So some nations pay less for resources than others through complex economic policies even though one believes a set resource costs a set amount on the global economy. Certain steps in the process disproportionaly increase the value of the material, as long as those steps happen within our borders (or while under the control of companies primarily based in the US) it keeps us on top in the global market. That means your dollar buys more at the store. Every hour you work will purchase several hours of someone else's work, or a raw material equivalent.
Now that others are competing for these finite resources the advances in productivity only alter the end result ever so slightly. Now that less nations are allowing us to deal with most of the steps that disproportionaly make our value higher than our contribution in the world, we are losing our monopoly on what has kept us on top. Europe and the US are no longer necessary for the foriegn economies. Our banking policies are currently compensating to keep us on top, but that can only last so long.
If we can start a few more wars between other serf nations, loan them money for conflicts, and then further put them in debt for rebuilding costs and enjoy the deals they must then provide for us to pay off thier debt we can continue to remain on top. That means we need a lot of global conflict though to compensate for China.
The reality is we needed to crush China's economy while it was still not a major threat. Research Taiwan and China's relationship if you do not think we have desired this for a long time. China has just been too powerful and continues to grow in power, disrupting our global hold on the world market.
China does not recognize Taiwan. Taiwan was part of China before the communist revolution. We backed the Capitalists, and others back Mao and the communists. The communists won and thier enemies fled to the island of Taiwan. There has been a stalemate since, and we have vowed to help Taiwan militarily if China makes a move to reclaim that lost portion of thier nation they view as thier own. So China is posed to be a big threat to us at some point. If China makes a move and we do not, then China is the new Super Power and the US will lose most of its prestige. However if China makes a move and we do as well, then we face serious Nuclear war.
China will eventualy surpass the US is capabilities, and already vhastly surpasses us in population. China's economy is also less susceptible to war time constraints than ours because they control the media and can more or less control the mood and continue producing war goods in a time of war. America is very susceptible to panic and as seen in 9/11 the media can focus on people dying and halt the economy. How many Americans would continue to keep the country running if Nuclear bombs were going off in places? How many Chinese? The chinese could easily win in any lengthy war based on morale alone.
This leaves us with the only real option of supporting internal conflict within China like we did with Afghanistan and the later the chechen rebels in Russia and similar situations in other nations. However China has been very good at totaly crushing internal disent without other rebels or the outside world hearing much about it. Tibet completely faded into history without anyone bating an eye. They killed off rebels, and moved in large numbers of settlers to replace the culture they didn't like. They control the media so rebel accomplishments never boost morale in likeminded individuals. They execute large numbers of political dissenters each year, and even have moble execution buses to allow for the easy harvesting of organs in all locations to make even that profitable.
China will become the new world leader this century, and the Chinese mentality is going to create a much more sinister world than the Western mentality that has influanced the world in the past couple centuries.
This is just world politics, whether you or I disagree or not, it is how things happen. It effects everything from ammo costs, to freedom, to quality of life for the citizens. It does not matter if the citizens do not wish to be bothered with such thoughts, they will be effected regardless.
thexrayboy
Member
I have to side with zoogster, his dissertation on how we in America have lived well due to the work of others is a good description. The global economy is growing and changing. We have become victims of our own success, we have not only exported our inventions to other countries but we have created in these countries an aspiration to live as they see us live in the media. Since my crystal ball has never worked as advertised I ( and no one else) have no idea what the future will bring for sure. But it will bring change and unless we as Americans pull our collective heads out of our collective heinies we are liable to wake up in the near future and discover we are no longer King of the Hill.
Peter M. Eick
Member
Zoogster,
Having worked in China and in south east asia a lot, your analysis of the situation matches mine very accurately. Since we cannot even fix our border problem, we do not have the political will or coherency to deal with China and its demands.
I working in the commodities business (oil) and we see it all the time. Prices may change a bit here and there, but in the long run, it will not go down. China demands commodities and they will be the new world order here soon.
We just let the world get away from us with our internal lack of focus.
Regardless, copper, lead, oil, etc. They will all be the price that China is willing to pay for it. Fortunately working for an oil company, they pay me well enough I just don't care that much.
Having worked in China and in south east asia a lot, your analysis of the situation matches mine very accurately. Since we cannot even fix our border problem, we do not have the political will or coherency to deal with China and its demands.
I working in the commodities business (oil) and we see it all the time. Prices may change a bit here and there, but in the long run, it will not go down. China demands commodities and they will be the new world order here soon.
We just let the world get away from us with our internal lack of focus.
Regardless, copper, lead, oil, etc. They will all be the price that China is willing to pay for it. Fortunately working for an oil company, they pay me well enough I just don't care that much.
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