Zulu!
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Mike Irwin
Member
Gary,
Wasn't that Zulu Dawn with the SMLE?
I'm pretty sure, too, that about 75% of the MHs shown in the movie are wrong.
They're long-lever MHs, which were brought out to rectify the problems caused by prolonged firing when extraction became stiff.
Wasn't that Zulu Dawn with the SMLE?
I'm pretty sure, too, that about 75% of the MHs shown in the movie are wrong.
They're long-lever MHs, which were brought out to rectify the problems caused by prolonged firing when extraction became stiff.
Mike Irwin
Member
That wasn't a Webley Mk VI in the movie, I don't believe.
The Mark VI had a square butt, and I distinctly recall a bird'shead grip, which would make it more than likely a Mk. III or IV.
The Mark V was far too late, having been adopted in, I believe, 1915 or so, with the Mark VI very shortly afterwards.
In any event, a Webley of any kind wasn't proper.
The Webley Mk I was adopted in 1887.
I'm not certain, but I don't think the .476 cartridge was adopted until after Rorke's Drift, either...
The Mark VI had a square butt, and I distinctly recall a bird'shead grip, which would make it more than likely a Mk. III or IV.
The Mark V was far too late, having been adopted in, I believe, 1915 or so, with the Mark VI very shortly afterwards.
In any event, a Webley of any kind wasn't proper.
The Webley Mk I was adopted in 1887.
I'm not certain, but I don't think the .476 cartridge was adopted until after Rorke's Drift, either...
Watched the movie a million times, although its not correct for that time period he is using a MKVI Webley. I use to have both firearms in my collection and would sit in my chair armed with both "helping" them out, I think it was the decisive action that turned the battle around.
Bruce in West Oz
Member
"If it's a miracle, Colour-Sergeant, it's a short-chambered Boxer Henry .45 calibre miracle."
"And a bayonet, Sir, with a lot of guts behind it."
(It's been on cable for the past month!)
"And a bayonet, Sir, with a lot of guts behind it."
(It's been on cable for the past month!)axeman_g
Member
THR members slay me ...
Good movie, but I had no idea the pieces were not period. so I learned alot today, but when is it ever going to be useful??
I am not bustin stones here, but my gawd, the depth of arcane gun knowledge here is amazing.
Thanks guys for enlightneing me ... I think. This will just give me another movie I wont be able to watch and another time period for me to study to make sure all movies/books set during this time are correct. This little bit of "knowledge" is probably the nugget to make my wife up and leave.
It is all of you guys fault.
Axe
Good movie, but I had no idea the pieces were not period. so I learned alot today, but when is it ever going to be useful??
I am not bustin stones here, but my gawd, the depth of arcane gun knowledge here is amazing.
Thanks guys for enlightneing me ... I think. This will just give me another movie I wont be able to watch and another time period for me to study to make sure all movies/books set during this time are correct. This little bit of "knowledge" is probably the nugget to make my wife up and leave.
It is all of you guys fault.
Axe
hops
Member
Cool movie. About 1 pct of all Victoria Crosses awared, were awarded in that single action alone. About 10 pct of the participants in that actions received a VC. Pretty amazing.
The book the movies were based on is "The Washing of the Spears", deals with the Zulu tribal/military organization, the causes for the war, the destruction of the 1200 man column wiped out at Iswalandu and the battle at Rourke's drift. Movie is accurate to the book.
rk
rk
HankB
Member
I LOVE THIS MOVIE!
If you look closely - especially when you get a front-quarter shot of the guys in multiple ranks - you'll see the guys in the rear ranks are NOT using Martinis. I'm not up on vintage Brit hardware, but there was some sort of bolt action in the ranks for sure. (Probably didn't have enough Martinis.)
Also understand that the guy who played the Zulu chief in the movie is the actual chief of the Zulus today.
I've been told some of the Zulu warriors are wearing wristwatches - their pay as "extras" in the movie. Haven't spotted it myself yet . . . maybe it's time to watch the DVD again.
If you look closely - especially when you get a front-quarter shot of the guys in multiple ranks - you'll see the guys in the rear ranks are NOT using Martinis. I'm not up on vintage Brit hardware, but there was some sort of bolt action in the ranks for sure. (Probably didn't have enough Martinis.)
Also understand that the guy who played the Zulu chief in the movie is the actual chief of the Zulus today.
I've been told some of the Zulu warriors are wearing wristwatches - their pay as "extras" in the movie. Haven't spotted it myself yet . . . maybe it's time to watch the DVD again.
in some prints there is a piece at the end of the credits saying that extras were provided by the Witwatersrand Rifles, who would doubtless still have had Lee-Enfields at the time.
Chief MANGOSUTHU GATSHA BUTHELEZI played Cetshwayo; he is the King's great-grandson.
Chief MANGOSUTHU GATSHA BUTHELEZI played Cetshwayo; he is the King's great-grandson.
Sunray
Member
"...the SMLE in one scene too..." No SMLE's at either battle. Martini-Henry's only. Zulu is about Roarke's Drift, Zulu Dawn, Isandhlwana. Isandhlwana took place three hours before the Drift battle. Both in 1878. No Mk III Enfields.
Mike Irwin
Member
Rorke's Drift happened January 22-23, 1879.
We know there were no Lee-Enfields at the battle. The question was which movie showed a Lee-Enfield.
A Lee-Enfield also wouldn't have been proper, as the Lee-Metford predated the Lee-Enfield by some years.
We know there were no Lee-Enfields at the battle. The question was which movie showed a Lee-Enfield.
A Lee-Enfield also wouldn't have been proper, as the Lee-Metford predated the Lee-Enfield by some years.
Parker Dean
Member
"Company will fix bayonets!"
"FIX BAYONETS!"
"ATTEN-----TION!!!"
(cling-ding-ding)
you slovenly soldier you
"FIX BAYONETS!"
"ATTEN-----TION!!!"
(cling-ding-ding)
you slovenly soldier you
SMLE
Member
Chard in fact had an Adams revolver, not sure what Bromhead carried. The MkVI Webleys used are anachronisms. There are a couple of Magazine Lee Enfields or Magazine Lee Metfords in the background of a few shots. The property Dept. modified them to use Martini Henry bayonets. The "proper" rifles would have MkII MHs with socket Bayonets, Colour Sergenat Bourne "should" have had a sword bayonet on his rifle. In the actual fight, Bourne was in his early 20s and was know as the "kid". He later went on to be a strong advocate of civilian rifle training and organized a number of rifle clubs back home in GB. Nigel Greene, the actor who portrayed Bourne, was born in South Africa and was of service age at the height of WWII. Just watching the way Greene handles his rifle, I would be willing to bet he served in HM Forces during the war.
Maurice Micklewhite Jr. AKA Michael Caine, served in the London Fusilers and saw combat in Korea.
Somewhere, I have a picture of Sergeant-Major Hook of the Royal School of Musketry, Hythe. It would seem that "Hooky" reformed somewhat later on.
Maurice Micklewhite Jr. AKA Michael Caine, served in the London Fusilers and saw combat in Korea.
Somewhere, I have a picture of Sergeant-Major Hook of the Royal School of Musketry, Hythe. It would seem that "Hooky" reformed somewhat later on.
Mike Irwin
Member
I read an article some years ago that the portrayal of Hooky in the movie was completely and totally false, and pissed the family off so badly that they sued the producers of the movie.
That claim is out on the web somewhere, but I've never made any attempt to verify it.
Here's a nice site regarding Martini Henry rifles, including a rather curious quote from Lord Chelmsford, not long before he found out how impressed the Zulus were with the rifle.
http://www.martinihenry.com/
Another thing about the movie that I thought to be interesting was it showing the soldiers wrapping their thumbs around the wrist of the stock. The scallop on the right rear of the action is where the thumb goes during firing. If you wrap your thumb over top of the wrist, you stand a good chance of the recoil driving your thumb into your nose.
That claim is out on the web somewhere, but I've never made any attempt to verify it.
Here's a nice site regarding Martini Henry rifles, including a rather curious quote from Lord Chelmsford, not long before he found out how impressed the Zulus were with the rifle.
http://www.martinihenry.com/
Another thing about the movie that I thought to be interesting was it showing the soldiers wrapping their thumbs around the wrist of the stock. The scallop on the right rear of the action is where the thumb goes during firing. If you wrap your thumb over top of the wrist, you stand a good chance of the recoil driving your thumb into your nose.
Mike Irwin
Member
Tele,
Yes, it appears that he had a Mk VI in the movie (I could have sworn it was a bird's head butt Mk IV), but that revolver is only 35 years too late to have seen the battle...
Yes, it appears that he had a Mk VI in the movie (I could have sworn it was a bird's head butt Mk IV), but that revolver is only 35 years too late to have seen the battle...
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