plexreticle
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- Oct 8, 2006
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It's the "unloaded" ones that get you.
Why is " Treat all firearms as loaded at all times " not really possible?
I recently went shooting with a former co-worker/longtime friend.
His gun safety practices do not follow the basics. He would be warned, and then removed from the range where I am a member
When I mentioned that his actions would be unacceptable at any other place that I shoot at, he seemed annoyed
No, because there's a separate rule reminding me not to. My point is that treating all guns as if they are loaded does nothing to remind people that the bullet may go beyond the intended target. And saying "well, it's just common sense" doesn't wash because ALL of the gun handling rules SHOULD be common sense but sadly aren't to many.Would you point a loaded gun at an unidentified target?
jcwit said:Just the act of touching has broken rule #1.
Has anyone here on this discussion ever been to a gun show and picked up & handled a firearm?
Just the act of touching has broken rule #1.
First, the Rule is properly stated, "All guns are always loaded", and we'll see Jeff Cooper's explanation later.morcey2 said:....The issue comes in with new shooters. If you tell someone to follow the rule "Treat every gun as if it were loaded," they have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I've talked to new shooters and they don't know how to treat a gun as if it were loaded. Responses range from "panic because it might be loaded" to "pull the trigger until you know that it's unloaded." Most of them had some inkling of what to do, but it usually focused on unloading the gun or confirming that it is unloaded. Most of them didn't think at all about the direction the muzzle was pointing. Too many of them said simply to make sure that the safety is on or something to that effect.
That's why Coopers Rule #1 isn't very helpful to truly new shooters....
ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
The only exception to this occurs when one has a weapon in his hands and he has personally unloaded it for checking. As soon as he puts it down, Rule 1 applies again.
...We think that "treat all guns as if they were loaded" implies with the "as if" qualification a dangerous choice of assumptions...
...A major point of issue is Rule 1, "All guns are always loaded." There are people who insist that we cannot use this because it is not precisely true. Some guns are sometimes unloaded. These folks maintain that the rule should read that one should always treat all guns as if they were loaded. The trouble here is the "as if," which leads to the notion that the instrument at hand may actually not be loaded....
All firearms are loaded. - There are no exceptions. Don't pretend that this is true. Know that it is and handle all firearms accordingly. Do not believe it when someone says: "It isn't loaded."
...The correct philosophical approach to serious firearms training is the "the condition doesn't matter" method. This was first articulated by Uncle Jeff in his four rules, but all four can all be rolled together in the universal admonition "DON'T DO STUPID THINGS WITH GUNS!" The "hot range" concept logically flows from this philosophical conclusion. Now, we handle all guns correctly, all the time. We don't have to "pretend" they're loaded. They ARE loaded, continuously, and all students need to become accustomed to it....
Negligent discharges that result in injury are the result of 1. IGNORANCE, and/or 2. COMPLACENCY and/or 3. HABIT that is inappropriate to changed conditions.
Proper training with the universal rules can only address #1 and #3.
...The great deficiency of much NRA civilian training ... is that muzzle and trigger discipline are not rigorously enforced except when on the range when the line is hot and sometimes not even then. Change the conditions to carrying a loaded gun at all times and adverse results are predictable.
EXAMPLE #1: Trap and skeet shooters often rest muzzles on their toes and point them at each other. They have almost no accidents on the range because guns are unloaded until just before they shoot. ...CHANGE CONDITIONS to a duck blind with loaded guns and the results are predictable....
One thing that Jeff Cooper said ... made a big impression on me. It is seldom repeated. To address complacency he said that every morning when he picks up his gun he says to himself "somewhere today someone is going to have an accident with a gun - not me, not today".
"All guns are always loaded"
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I was at Thunder Ranch, Clint said he painted the sign with the original rules. For a few days there was only the first rule. The other three were added for the dimwitted and stupid ( or slow, I can't recall).I know a lot of people don't care for James Yeager but he once said if everyone would follow Rule 1 there would be no need for the other three and I can't find fault with his statement.
I say it like this "Treat all firearms as loaded at all times"
Words alone were never sufficient. Words alone aren't sufficient. Words alone never will be sufficient.rust collector said:...If words alone were ever sufficient, that day is long past.