New Auto Breech Lock Pro

Walkalong said:

Over the years I modded how I did things to keep it as enjoyable as possible. I hated priming on the press, and I don't mind hand priming. I also think hand priming does a better job for me, maybe not others, and plenty of people prime on progressives with no issues, but for me, I'll continue to hand prime. I also liked having the sizing out of the equation when loading, and it showed advantages as well. So for me, that is the way to go
YMMV

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One of the reasons people go to progressives is to make it faster easier, and more enjoyable. Nothing is less enjoyable than to be thus enjoying yourself, manufacturing at a good clip, and have everything suddenly come to a crashing halt. If one thinks that that isn't going to happen once in a while they are kidding themselves, and I don't care what color their equipment is. Priming on a progressive is doable, but depending on the press, the brass prep, and even the primers, and even how focused you are a particular day, things can and do go wrong.......and being that you are going at a good clip.....well the crash and burn can be pretty nuts.

Some people (Walkalong?) may feel they have better things to do than to perfect one little operation on the progressive that they can do by hand, with meticulous perfection and actually enjoy it .... at least more than troubleshooting that operation on the progressive if they don't have to. Others (like me) like the tinkering part .... I may end up at the same place eventually, (hand priming) but I have to try to beat the odds first.

On my press, I found I could, but it required the following:
1) my press (RCBS Pro 2K) has a priming seating depth stop...full stroke of the press handle stops a primer in the same spot every time. (Yes it is adjustable...one more thing to adjust)
2) But that means primer pockets HAVE to be the same depth (we have to assume each primer we use is.....because there is no "feel" on a progressive....you stroke the press completely though.
3) Therefore case prep requires each pocket is Uniform.....for sure uniform....that means a military reamer for crimps, and a pocket uniformer. (I use a Trim Mate for both)
This is why Dillon's 1050 has a swager built in.......but a swager is not always 100% (sometimes brass springs back)....and that means a possible crushed primer....and the rare but despicable stoppage. The reamer on the other hand, cuts the crimp out & includes a chamfer to ease starting a primer....the swager is supposed to swage a "round" into the pocket, but it has to be set perfect to do that and then again there is spring-back possible.

Once each and every case is uniformed my primer seating actually works every time.....but did/do I save time over just priming by hand first?.....Not at all sure about that....maybe Walkalong's case prep is shorter......and then, if your progressive doesn't have a primer seating depth stop? All bets are off.

None of this counts the lack of stress enjoyed by not even having to worry about inserting primers, unseen, at a clip of say 80 per minute, while worrying about 3 or 4 other stations......at the same time! Bottom line.....I always knew Walkalong was smarter than the average bear.

9 pages into a thread about a product that is still 90 days out on initial delivery. You would almost think this was about some piece of plastic with reciprocating metal on top of it that says 19x on the side...carry on fellas.

Rule3 said:

Something actually about the press.

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I am guilty.

I agree. We should keep the thread discussion about the new press.

WestKentucky said:

9 pages into a thread about a product that is still 90 days out on initial delivery. You would almost think this was about some piece of plastic with reciprocating metal on top of it that says 19x on the side...carry on fellas.

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Hey, it's second nature to speculate. We learned it early on, as to what was under the Christmas tree in that shape of box, or that rattle.
I mean, we've got a teaser, but that is it.

Anyhow, I think there ought to be a prize for who was closest in their speculation.

WestKentucky said:

9 pages into a thread about a product that is still 90 days out on initial delivery. You would almost think this was about some piece of plastic with reciprocating metal on top of it that says 19x on the side...carry on fellas.

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90 days out? Party Pooper! Quote from Lee Precision:
Auto Breech Lock Pro shipping first week of April 2018. Pre-order with your favorite dealer or distributor.
Worst case scenario: March 7th.......28 days and 4 hours from now (MST)

It looks tiny using existing progressive press standards.....a little scary.....plenty of plastic and aluminum, yes.....(Pro Chuckers, LnL's and even Dillon 650's also come to mind) but what isn't these days. Still it just might be the cat's meow for pistol or .223 on a budget.

Predictions? Looking at the really small size of the tool, I'm guessing the small plate on the bench is cast iron, and the vertical supports are steel. If they were aluminum, they might need to be bigger.......here's hoping.

GW Staar said:

One of the reasons people go to progressives is to make it faster easier, and more enjoyable. Nothing is less enjoyable than to be thus enjoying yourself, manufacturing at a good clip, and have everything suddenly come to a crashing halt. If one thinks that that isn't going to happen once in a while they are kidding themselves, and I don't care what color their equipment is. Priming on a progressive is doable, but depending on the press, the brass prep, and even the primers, and even how focused you are a particular day, things can and do go wrong.......and being that you are going at a good clip.....well the crash and burn can be pretty nuts.

Some people (Walkalong?) may feel they have better things to do than to perfect one little operation on the progressive that they can do by hand, with meticulous perfection and actually enjoy it .... at least more than troubleshooting that operation on the progressive if they don't have to. Others (like me) like the tinkering part .... I may end up at the same place eventually, (hand priming) but I have to try to beat the odds first.

On my press, I found I could, but it required the following:
1) my press (RCBS Pro 2K) has a priming seating depth stop...full stroke of the press handle stops a primer in the same spot every time. (Yes it is adjustable...one more thing to adjust)
2) But that means primer pockets HAVE to be the same depth (we have to assume each primer we use is.....because there is no "feel" on a progressive....you stroke the press completely though.
3) Therefore case prep requires each pocket is Uniform.....for sure uniform....that means a military reamer for crimps, and a pocket uniformer. (I use a Trim Mate for both)
This is why Dillon's 1050 has a swager built in.......but a swager is not always 100% (sometimes brass springs back)....and that means a possible crushed primer....and the rare but despicable stoppage. The reamer on the other hand, cuts the crimp out & includes a chamfer to ease starting a primer....the swager is supposed to swage a "round" into the pocket, but it has to be set perfect to do that and then again there is spring-back possible.

Once each and every case is uniformed my primer seating actually works every time.....but did/do I save time over just priming by hand first?.....Not at all sure about that....maybe Walkalong's case prep is shorter......and then, if your progressive doesn't have a primer seating depth stop? All bets are off.

None of this counts the lack of stress enjoyed by not even having to worry about inserting primers, unseen, at a clip of say 80 per minute, while worrying about 3 or 4 other stations......at the same time! Bottom line.....I always knew Walkalong was smarter than the average bear.

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This is one of the things I find appealing about this design, the auto prime gives good feel to the priming since it primes at the top of the stroke.

9mmepiphany said:

I've found it very helpful in considering it for a backup progressive...I just couldn't bring myself to get a Dillon Square Deal.

The big question is if this goes on the Ultramount, thus displacing the Classic Cast to the Bench plate. As small as this appears, it might fit better on the plate between the two Ultramounts

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I'll admit that I'm intrigued, and at the price, am leaning toward getting one. Don't need it at this time. But who knows.

I actually had a dream last night that I bought one! What the heck??? I am not even really *that* interested!!!

But... as others have mentioned, it might be a good backup press. I don't shoot a lot of .45 ACP each year (2,000 -3,000 maybe???), and since my XL650 gets used a lot for 9mm and now .40 S&W, I could keep the XL650 setup for small primers and keep the Lee setup for large primers and run my smaller batches of .45.

I tried using my LCT for .45, but it just takes too danged long with 4 pulls of the handle for each completed cartridge.

LCT for rifle and load workups seems like the best usage for me, dedicate the XL650 for SPP work, and then maybe the new Lee Auto Breech Lock for the .45...

Being that it's only 4 stations....like a Dillon 550 BTW, then sizing/depriming & priming off the press, Walkalong style, means the 4 stations is fine for the rest......

Expanding/charging in 1, bullet feed in 2, bullet seat in 3, and crimp separately in 4 if you want. As for powder checking? I actually prefer a pinhole video camera and 4" screen in my face for that anyway!

Using up a station for powder checking is yet another thing that you have to constantly adjust and monitor, and IMO isn't worth the trouble compared to a camera a video that you never have to adjust for different calibers. I love mine! I bought a lock-out die, and never unwrapped it.

Back to Earth: no this press doesn't qualify for an ONLY progressive unless you are going to load nothing bigger than .223 rifle. Not going to replace your Pro 2000, 650, 1050, Lnl AP. But there is a NICHE undiscovered & unfilled, and I think Lee found it. Let's see if they can execute!

I am intrigued by this press too. I load all of my pistol rounds on a SDB, and rifle rounds on my LCT. For 223 it is getting old with the four pulls per round after all the work off press to prep brass. This press could be a great dedicated 223 press for me without having to upgrade to a 550b or LNL.

Rule3 said:

Why LEE did not design it as a 5 hole is beyond me.

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GW Staar said:

But there is a NICHE undiscovered & unfilled, and I think Lee found it.

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I think Lee created a niche with the Classic Turret for those wanting to reload pistol and rifle calibers single stage at faster yet relaxed pace with the convenience of swapping out turrets for caliber change.

Personally, I think the new Pro 4000 will fill a gap between Classic Turret and Progressive presses. Maybe that's the niche?

GW Staar said:

Predictions? Looking at the really small size of the tool, I'm guessing the small plate on the bench is cast iron, and the vertical supports are steel. If they were aluminum, they might need to be bigger.......here's hoping.

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The small base plate is shown in the print P4K Lower Linkage in the prints already posted here. Take a look at that print and try to imagine that it is cast iron. Of course nothing is impossible but given the retail cost of the unit and the physical size of the part I doubt that it is cast iron. The prints have omitted for a reason dimensions and materials. Some might want to fantasize that another maker of presses will swipe the design, but no. My prediction is expect (overall) a lot of molded plastic and COTS. But we shall see.

Rule3 said:

Why LEE did not design it as a 5 hole is beyond me. Perhaps so they can use existing tooling and parts? Perhaps because the do not sell a Powder Check die? Heck they could make and sell one of those.

If I loaded on a Progressive I am pretty sure I would like the "safety" of a powder check die as I want to seat and crimp separately.

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I agree with you that is why I held out for a 5 hole progressive.

But Rule3, you ask a very good question. I'm trying to imagine what is the actual purpose of the press from a marketing perspective and I come up with two major possible reasons. The first is to offer a 4 hole press to address the shortcomings of the 3 hole Pro 1000. The second is that Dillon sells a ton of 4 hole SDBs. Different animal of course but the SDB is limited to straight wall pistol rounds and while the new Lee might process some of the small rifle cartridges, obviously it isn't going to handle anything bigger than (approx.) .223 so that might actually be the reason why the press is so small, to keep users from trying to handload cartridges like 30-06 on it. I think Lee will try to use that as a selling point to try to lure possible Dillon customers. Will it work? I doubt it. They (Lee) already say the PK 4000 is the "fastest, easiest and most economical progressive press ever made". This is of course absurd but there it is.

Looking at the assembly prints I think keeping costs down is the main design concern. If the press actually retails for $110.00 and Lee want's to make 10% profit and the retailer will settle for 5% but pay FOB from the distributer to store, and Lee want's to pay the workers something to put the unit together, cover it with liability insurance and manufacturing overhead and so forth, there can only be about $30.00 worth of materials in the press. A little more or a little less but about $30.00 Lee Precision is not a non-profit charity, they have to at least break even with costs, even if the whole thing is designated a loss leader.

Lee has one thing that no one else in the retail handloading supply industry has and that is a small army of volunteer salespersons that work tirelessly to sell their products for them. Nothing wrong with that at all. Those who have Lee presses and the associated add-ons can buy the press and borrow the add-ons from their bench to make it work but the newb is going to need to buy a bunch of stuff to make the press function even on a basic level. True Dillon offers stripped down presses but Dillon to their credit doesn't make the claim to be a high quality at the same time a low budget item. I find the whole discussion of this press to be highly amusing, like adults who, as already insinuated, still believe in Santa and he is headed their way with a sleigh full of toys, a few months late but that's ok.

Let me be clear on one thing, I do believe that the press will work within it's intended design limits and that some will find total happiness in the thing even though they will lose a certain amount of "control" over the "process" LOL!

My only wonder about this press is pretty simple. I wonder how long it has been in the works. It’s certainly not a rushed design product, but I wonder how many already are on benches for beta and how long they have been there.

WestKentucky said:

My only wonder about this press is pretty simple. I wonder how long it has been in the works. It’s certainly not a rushed design product, but I wonder how many already are on benches for beta and how long they have been there.

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I think it's rushed, but that doesn't mean the design doesn't have merit. Why else would they be showing SolidWorks models instead of real pictures? I suspect some of the beta testers have announced themselves in this thread.

ray15 said:

I think it's rushed, but that doesn't mean the design doesn't have merit. Why else would they be showing SolidWorks models instead of real pictures? I suspect some of the beta testers have announced themselves in this thread.

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I posted the quick start manual that has real pictures
Here:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/new-auto-breech-lock-pro.832974/page-8#post-10781180

Maybe you missed it...you're welcome

thomas15 said:

Lee has one thing that no one else in the retail handloading supply industry has and that is a small army of volunteer salespersons that work tirelessly to sell their products for them. Nothing wrong with that at all. Those who have Lee presses and the associated add-ons can buy the press and borrow the add-ons from their bench to make it work but the newb is going to need to buy a bunch of stuff to make the press function even on a basic level. True Dillon offers stripped down presses but Dillon to their credit doesn't make the claim to be a high quality at the same time a low budget item. I find the whole discussion of this press to be highly amusing, like adults who, as already insinuated, still believe in Santa and he is headed their way with a sleigh full of toys, a few months late but that's ok.

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I don't think anyone here thinks its Christmas or this Lee product-on-the-way is a new Dillon-quality wunderpress. We've already established its a very small light weight, pistol only progressive, except that it might be adequate for the .223 tinys. What is interesting and maybe even exciting for their customers, is that Lee is upgrading at all.....Dillon sure as hell isn't....nor do they care a whit about making progressives that use normal die sets that everyone can afford.......and they also have an army of users to who try to sell for them and patronize everyone else who might buy something else.

Lee is making some interesting changes in their basic line that maybe will fix some of the reliability hiccups of some of the past products. I say good for them. Dillon would do well to copy that idea as their products aren't near as perfect as their zealots portray them to be.

I've never owned a Lee Press yet. My heavy duty cast iron RCBS Pro 2000 is more than adequate, in every way for my needs.......but I love to tinker.....and I love to help others be successful at the hobby.....I may find a use for this little tool.....for one thing its the only progressive small enough for to be added to my already crowded 8' bench.

I added some information to my previous post (#206)....needed after I predicted prematurely about the cast iron base that turns out is steel .....at least its not aluminum or other pot metal.

Tilos said:

I posted the quick start manual that has real pictures
Here:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/new-auto-breech-lock-pro.832974/page-8#post-10781180

Maybe you missed it...you're welcome

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I did not miss it, but they do have a website. Strangely enough, there is just the SolidWorks rendering there. And on the product page.