Looking to try a new powder for .38 specials.

Bfh_auto said:

Did Keith G offend you at some point?
I loaded 700x in 38s. While it was extremely accurate, it was impossible for me to drop consistent charges.

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What is this 'drop charges' you speak of? I use Lee dippers and hand throw each charge. If a charge is inconsistent, it's my own fault. They aren't inconsistent.

Titegroup works well for me.

I was trying to develop 38 Special equivalent loads in 357 cases, due to my dislike of lead rings in the cylinders. I shot two cases of +P 38 Special ammunition in one M66 and it took hours of work to remove the lead ring. That more or less cured me of the desire to shoot 38's in a 357 cylinder.

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One thing to do to make it easier is to flare a 357 case to the diameter of the cylinder and rig it up with a small handle of some sort; that way you can twist it in and cut the crud build up easily enough.

357 mag does great with 2400. 38 special does great with unique. The only 2 powders i use for 357 are 2400 & h110/w296, never needed any other. 38s ive loaded with just about anything but rarely load them anymore cause i only have 357s and have no need for the shorter case.

A lot of the powders listed are excellent for .38/.357. I like IMR 4227 for .357 Mag. It’s very consistent for me, has great velocity, it’s almost impossible to overload, and does better with lower end loads than H110 (at least for me). I’m gonna throw Autocomp into the list, too. I’ve tried it a couple times with good results. It produces a little higher velocity than Bullseye and Titegroup, but not as much as 4227 and H110.

I use Alliant Power Pistol. I've used Unique in the past. But Power Pistol is where my future is

@Keith G ,
If up you use a magnum primer with HS-6 you will see better results with loads below the +P pressure range.

AA#5 will also give you a slower to use but not as touchy about being up near the top of the pressure range.

Personally I use W231 for most of my .38 Special loading and see no reason to change that. When I do use a slower powder it's HS-6.

If you're only wanting .38 Special pressure then BE-86. This is the best powder I have found in my effort to maximize the performance of 38 Special -- power factor, consistency, and accuracy.
For .357, BE-86 is still outstanding and you can increase the charge for more velocity and power factor.
Longshot will give more still while being distinctly under the heaviest magnum powders like H110, Lil'Gun, MP300 etc which incur tradeoffs like inability to reduce loads, twice the powder consumed per shot, flash, blast, noise, and recoil. But I do not recommend Longshot for .38 Special. It seems to do better at higher pressures.

Load data for HS-6 suggests it's similar to Longshot. I have not used it, but I can see the grain size is very fine like H110 and about half the size of Longshot. I dislike the fine powders that leak out of my auto-measure, and which tend to fly around because of electrostatic charges. H110 is annoying that way. Longshot is not.

In reality, you aren't asking too much... sorta.

25yd target load, mild and accurate: 4.0-4.5grn Unique under a 158'ish grn cast bullet. 4grn with a 158 gave me 650fps out of my 4" Model 10.

Hitting 1000fps out of .38SPC brass will be a bit of a challenge... if you are staying within published data (with a 158grn bullet) and not going into +P territory. BE86 is probably your best bet for that, but if you can live with a little less velocity... you can have it all in one powder: Unique. 4.7grn gives you just over 800fps.

Personally, if you really want 1000fps, you are going to have to go to .357 brass, or to a lighter bullet (which I wouldn't suggest.)

Just for reference, http://www.reloadammo.com/38loads.htm .

My go to load for 38 is 3.5 grains of Bullseye under 158 grain cast SWC., All are shot in two 357's and I never get a lead ring in my cyls. I do clean them after every range outing. hdbiker

Because your gun is .357 Magnum, you are not limited to .38 Special pressure levels in the .38 Special brass. You can safely load the .38 Special cases to 35,000 psi. The pressure rating is for the gun, not the cartridge. The problem is you cannot simply use .357 Magnum load data to do this because it will be overpressure in the shorter cases. But you can safely exceed .38 Special +P load data in that gun, which is actually a particularly strong .357 Magnum that uses a very large diameter cylinder for only 6 .357" chambers. The cylinder walls are very stout. Still, I am only suggesting exceeding .38 Spc +P pressures, not exceeding .357 Magnum pressures. I do not recommend doing this with fast powders like HP-38, Titegroup, or Bullseye. The pressure goes up too fast. Instead, use slower powders and work up. You can be sure that the .357 Magnum maximum loads will be too much, so you'd want to stay well below them. This practice is not unprecedented at all. Prior to the creation of the .357 Magnum, people like Elmer Keith and numerous others loaded strong S&W N-frame .38 Special revolvers to more than 40,000psi. S&W sold revolvers for this practice and factories produced such ammunition for several decades. It was called .38/44 and was simply a .38 Special loaded to modern rather than blackpowder pressure levels.

If you're going to exceed .38 Special +P pressure in your .357 Magnum gun, Longshot is better for "hot" loads than BE-86. It is a slower powder where the peak pressure will increase less for a given increase in powder. It's more forgiving of slightly exceeding your intended charge weight. But BE-86 is more consistent at 38+P pressures and lower. The only other suggestion I have about this is to get and use Quickload software to study what happens when you use .357 Magnum load data in a .38 Special case. Quickload can help you calculate the effect of the shorter overall length and help you see where you're going to get into trouble.

I put a lot of effort into loading .38/44 for .357 Magnum guns, but what ultimately drove me away from it and caused me to put the 1000+ .38 Special cases I had into storage and buy hundreds and eventually more than a thousand .357 cases was two factors: first, I decided to prefer heavier (longer) bullets, and second, I found the best performance in a lead-free bullet (Barnes XPB) which is longer still because copper is less dense than lead. The use of much longer bullets is one of the meaningful ways that .357 Magnum really distinguishes itself from 9x19mm, and the extra length in the Magnum case versus the Special case is very useful when using those long bullets.

So my suggestion is to get .357 cases, especially if you're going to load for high performance. Save the .38 Special cases for your light loads where you'd be using published .38 Special data. This might sound like I'm contradicting my advice to load the .38 cases to .357 pressure -- my point is that you can do that, but there is a better way.

A little more data from Handloader (October, 2016). This includes 38-44 data and .38 Spl +P.

Keep in mind that .38 Special brass is not designed to contain the pressures of .38-44 or .357 magnum, and will have a reduced life expectancy, and will be more prone to failures.

labnoti said:

This might sound like I'm contradicting my advice to load the .38 cases to .357 pressure -- my point is that you can do that, but there is a better way.

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Loading .38's to .357 levels is foolhardy, particularly if you have a .357 and brass to go with it. If you were confined to a .38 in a .38, well, I could see maybe pushing the limit, but the better solution would be a different firearm.

Keith G said:

Not looking for 357 levels out of 38 brass, just a high performing +P 38

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I've had good results with Accurate #5 for upper end 38spl but VV N-340 works very well for this, by this I mean +p included.

try that 38-44 load shown by mr flintstone. check for leading in the barrel and don't let those loads get into any 38 special chambered gun.

luck,

murf

Instead of loading .38 up to or above the +P MAX (which might be safe in your gun but not others) I would work the other way since it is a .357 and load .357 down to whatever power level you desire.
One of the joys of reloading is you can download within reason.

Keith G said:

Been loading 158 grain LSWC’s with 3.5 grains of Bullseye in my 357 Magnum 5.5” SA revolver for a while. Have also played around a little with Trail Boss. Looking at trying maybe Unique or Universal, but open to others. Not unhappy with BE, just want to try something new.

Uses for the load are target/steel shooting out to 100 yards and small to medium sized critter control on our farm. So not looking for super light loads.

Opinions and load recommendations appreciated.

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BE-86 was a good load for my 158 grainers.