Is 5 or 6 really enough in today's world.

GEM said:

Perhaps attending events like Tom Givens arranges would introduce you to the world of legitimate experts.

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Please rather than being brief tell us! We are all surely worthy of their knowledge too!

Google Givens and the contributors to TacCon, and most of them post AARs or summaries of their reviews. To be blunt, I don't opine until I've done significant research or training. Others can do the same.

tubeshooter said:

it is a little "low road" to deride the low cap crowd as ranging from completely unrealistic to downright low-key-anti and deserving whatever happens to them.

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If anything, the ‘low cap crowd’ comes off as the most realistic.

GEM said:

Google Givens and the contributors to TacCon, and most of them post AARs or summaries of their reviews. To be blunt, I don't opine until I've done significant research or training. Others can do the same.

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I was trying to give you an opportunity to share your knowledge with us rather than just look down upon a conversation. But I get it! Be safe!

I am fairly sure that "legitimate experts" are ones who agree with whatever a fellow's opinions are.

Here is a counterexample of where a lot of rounds meant nothing. I am very aware that the plural of anecdote is not data, so please don’t tell me that. I _am_ saying that while more rounds is better, the net can still be zero.

Summary: A gangbanger gets robbed at a mall by two other gangbangers. He gets mad and empties a full auto glock at them. At least 15 rds, zero hits on his targets or bystanders. (I am curious how many holes there was in the roof.). BTW, this mall is in the middle of middle class suburbia. I also used to shop there…

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loc...rested-surveillance-footage-released/2863761/

Kawamax said:

Here is a counterexample of where a lot of rounds meant nothing. I am very aware that the plural of anecdote is not data, so please don’t tell me that. I _am_ saying that while more rounds is better, the net can still be zero.

Summary: A gangbanger gets robbed at a mall by two other gangbangers. He gets mad and empties a full auto glock at them. At least 15 rds, zero hits on his targets or bystanders. (I am curious how many holes there was in the roof.). BTW, this mall is in the middle of middle class suburbia. I also used to shop there…

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loc...rested-surveillance-footage-released/2863761/

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The shooter's girlfriend was pulling on him while he was firing his full auto pistol. I gotta say I've never practiced with someone tugging on me.

chicharrones said:

The shooter's girlfriend was pulling on him while he was firing his full auto pistol. I gotta say I've never practiced with someone tugging on me.

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Pretty irresponsible. You've got to train for ANYTHING!

chicharrones said:

The shooter's girlfriend was pulling on him while he was firing his full auto pistol. I gotta say I've never practiced with someone tugging on me.

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Just another hood variable one must account for. For example, perhaps your side piece is angry at you for not buying or stealing her a new outfit, and due to your failures she is grabbing you while you are trying to engage other gangbangers with your ‘Glock.’


Even worse, maybe baby mama ain’t been paid for several months, and now you are dealing with multiple assailants: said opposing gangbangers and baby mama.

.38 Special said:

Pretty irresponsible. You've got to train for ANYTHING!

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Exactly have to train for it.

The new Colt Cobra makes an excellent carry revolver.

So does the King Cobra.

One thing we can say is that these days, one does not have to sacrifice capacity for concealability in semiautos, with choices like the 365 and LCP Max.

Simple Shooter said:

in the 70-90s one would have to buy a newspaper and scroll through the national news section to find even 10% of the crime reports I can find on the Fox News website on my phone right now.

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Yes. Crime has gone down. Crime reporting has gone up. Public reaction to crime has gone up. If there’s a shooting anywhere near a school, the school gets locked down, and it gets reported as a school shooting. When I was a kid in the 80s there was a high school in the next town that had shootings and stabbings all the time. It didn’t make the news. It was just a school in a bad neighborhood.

Of course more rounds in a fight are better than fewer. But is a revolver enough in “today’s world”? Today’s world hasn’t changed. If anything it’s ridiculously civilized compared to a few decades ago. Most of the time 6 rounds is enough.

I was never in the military and I was never a LEO. If so, I would have been trained to react properly if a bunch of people were shooting at me - get to cover, call for backup, put rounds in the air to keep their heads down, etc.

I'm a civilian. A bunch of people aren't going to start shooting at me. I honestly can't understand why anyone thinks that a "gang of hardened thugs" is suddenly going to open fire on me from a distance. That's a very loud way to get the $20 in my pocket, my $500 truck, and eventually the death sentence.

Crime is a real thing. People close to me have been mugged or sexually assaulted. I know at least two people who were at home when their house was burglarized. My cousin was murdered. None of these were LEO or military type of situations. They were typical civilian crime situations.

I understand that many members of this forum have had military/LEO type of training. I'm not convinced that it's appropriate training for civilians.

My grandfather was a police officer in a major US city for over 30 years. Some of the best civilian training anyone could have had would have been just walking around town with him. He could point out all kinds of stuff going on right in front of you that you didn't even notice.

14 pages thus far. We seem to be simply re-hashing the same arguments that we've gone through over and over again for the past twenty years.

wayneinFL said:

Today’s world hasn’t changed. If anything it’s ridiculously civilized compared to a few decades ago.

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Not everywhere in this country. And if you live in certain large cities and have occasion to wander about downtown, even during broad daylight, it should be apparent to you that the homeless and mental illness problems have created a drastically different street culture that you'll never see in your little farm town of 10,000 people.

Anyway, this topic seems to point out the possible differences in perspective dependent on from where forum members are living and conducting their internet activity. One suspects that more of our small-town and rural dwellers are comfortable with packing a J-frame as EDC, whereas someone who lives in Houston or Chicago might be more prone to packing a pistol with 17-round mags and two spares.

Tallball said:

I honestly can't understand why anyone thinks that a "gang of hardened thugs" is suddenly going to open fire on me from a distance.

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If one is getting fired upon "from a distance," one does not engage with a handgun, particularly if there are multiple shooters. Seeking cover would seem to be one's first priority.

Bond has some new limited capacity guns for folks.
An one shot 45-70 derringer and a neat two shot Stubby 9mm derringer.

I agree this is going nowhere, as usual. Why repeat the arguments of single mugger close up vs. a more intensive set of opponents at a perhaps longer distance (which is rare, which means to some it never happens)? If it does, the assumption is that the civilian will lose anyway.

Old Dog said:

14 pages thus far. We seem to be simply re-hashing the same arguments that we've gone through over and over again for the past twenty years.
Not everywhere in this country. And if you live in certain large cities and have occasion to wander about downtown, even during broad daylight, it should be apparent to you that the homeless and mental illness problems have created a drastically different street culture that you'll never see in your little farm town of 10,000 people.

Anyway, this topic seems to point out the possible differences in perspective dependent on from where forum members are living and conducting their internet activity. One suspects that more of our small-town and rural dwellers are comfortable with packing a J-frame as EDC, whereas someone who lives in Houston or Chicago might be more prone to packing a pistol with 17-round mags and two spares.

If one is getting fired upon "from a distance," one does not engage with a handgun, particularly if there are multiple shooters. Seeking cover would seem to be one's first priority.

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I agree it's rehashing. As far as cities, several were much worse though in the 70's to early 90's. A good example is I lived in NYC 2012-2020. Yes there were bad areas. However, it was far far worse in NYC in the late 70's-early 90's, by all accounts.

Zendude said:

One thing we can say is that these days, one does not have to sacrifice capacity for concealability in semiautos, with choices like the 365 and LCP Max.

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Sure, a Sig 365 is as small as a snub and a LCP Max more so.

Thing is, citing statistics, crime rates, location, as rationalizations for low capacity, Nah; they they prefer the antique revolver platform and that is all justifications.
How about a Sig 365 or LCP Max instead of a snub? No...here comes posts about crime rates, area, statistics, .... its really this :

CDW4ME said:

Sure, a Sig 365 is as small as a snub and a LCP Max more so.

Thing is, citing statistics, crime rates, location, as rationalizations for low capacity, Nah; they they prefer the antique revolver platform and that is all justifications.
How about a Sig 365 or LCP Max instead of a snub? No...here comes posts about crime rates, area, statistics, .... its really this :
View attachment 1128955

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Nothing wrong with an Sig or LCP. For new shooters I would say they are good choices. For some who have been carrying snubs for decades, have been shooting and training with them for decades it’s hard to justify a switch based on a false sense of insecurity. Trying to keep up with every iteration of an Sig or Ruger platform at the moment will make your head spin. Sometimes tried and true is just that!

CDW4ME said:

Sure, a Sig 365 is as small as a snub and a LCP Max more so.
View attachment 1128955

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The 365, fully loaded, weighs about twice as much as the 340PD. The LCP is chambered for a useless cartridge.

Does anyone remember an old Western called Colt 45 where a government secret agent pretending to be a salesman for SAA Colts. Tried to get folks to ditch the BP guns and the old West toots were full of this and that about switching to the newfangled guns. Sounds familiar.

Show Wyatt Earp a SW Model 19, he ditches the BP guns. Show him a Glock 19 and he ditches the SW 19. Show him a phaser and he ditches the Glock 19.

Show Yancy Derringer a LCP and he carries one in each vest pocket, one up each sleeve and one in his hat. Pahoo ditches the double barrel for a Shockwave.

I'm a fan of J frames for comfortable pocket carry WHEN that's what I got to do. My 432 is really neat. I just shot the 642 quite decently in a close range carry match. However, on my belt - a SW 19 (which I've done) is silly compared to a Glock 26 or 19 for EDC. Or a similar semi. With a SW Model 19, I came in second in the revolver category in a match after a champion level shooter who usually came in second after Jerry. NOTE - guess how many people were shooting revolver in that match - LOL!

I think lost in the discussion is that many here seem to think being forced to respond to a situation with deadly force would result from being targeted as prey. More likely, violence occurs in a random fashion - witness the guy, bending over to unlock his bike, who was recently killed in at 4th and Pike in Seattle, with a hammer, by a mentally ill person. Or a gang shootout at an apartment complex or in a mall...

So many of us seem to have a preconceived notion of what our gunfight is going to look like. I know a guy who had a (presumably mentally ill) homeless guy kick in the door on the toilet stall when he'd just started doing his business (this happened in a transit center). Guy was armed, but said it would've taken him a minute to access his pistol -- luckily, forceful yelling **** worked. That time.

Louisville, KY, NY's Eve -- never reported by the police or the media initially. 600 rounds fired from 40 different weapons. WWYD if you were heading from your apartment to your car to leave for that New Year's Eve party?
https://www.wave3.com/video/2023/01...t-near-louisville-apartment-complex-obtained/

Hi...
It is really quite simple.
5-6 rounds is enough...until it isn't.
Nobody knows when more will be needed.
Carry what you feel comfortable with.

Your allowed to reload. Your allowed to practice that so you can do it quickly. That trick works with revolvers or semi-autos...

I base my personality on these threads