Is 6 Shots Really Enough?
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When I went to one of the big-name shooting schools, I took a Commander as a backup. It still had the original tiny sights. I assumed that it wouldn't be as accurate...but found that the small sights meant it was slower, too.
John
John
I spent a good deal of time reading this entire thread and while I agree that more rounds on hand is a desirable thing my primary carry remains a 5 shot Ruger KLCR loaded w/ .38+p's. Why? Because that is the gun I have found that is small and light enough to carry at all times I can carry a gun, yet large enough to shoot well. It is also a gun I have high confidence in for reliability, something I have strong reservations about for small semi auto's.
I do up my odds for hit probability with the KLCR by having the CT laser grip on it and with frequent practice. I also live and work in a decent area so the treat level isn't that high. Actually my highest threat level would be while at work, where I am forbidden to carry both by company policy and by the fact that I often make calls on school grounds as part of my job. For me 5 shots is a reasonable accomadation to a realistic assessment of likely threats. Sure there is a possibility that 5 shots might not be enough, but the odds of that happening are fairly high statistically speaking.
This thread has caused me to consider adding another option to my defensive handgun choices which are currently either a 5 shot snubby (either KLCR or SP101) or a full size long barrel Glock 34 or 17L 9mm which aren't suitable for CCW. As it is, I'm carrying the best CCW option I have.
I do up my odds for hit probability with the KLCR by having the CT laser grip on it and with frequent practice. I also live and work in a decent area so the treat level isn't that high. Actually my highest threat level would be while at work, where I am forbidden to carry both by company policy and by the fact that I often make calls on school grounds as part of my job. For me 5 shots is a reasonable accomadation to a realistic assessment of likely threats. Sure there is a possibility that 5 shots might not be enough, but the odds of that happening are fairly high statistically speaking.
This thread has caused me to consider adding another option to my defensive handgun choices which are currently either a 5 shot snubby (either KLCR or SP101) or a full size long barrel Glock 34 or 17L 9mm which aren't suitable for CCW. As it is, I'm carrying the best CCW option I have.
Gangs are or are not a threat requiring more than six? Carbine anyone?
http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1471585
couple attacked by wild pack of motorcyclists
http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1471585
couple attacked by wild pack of motorcyclists
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Yeah...I was involved in a very long discussion about this on another forum yesterday.
The biggest 'mistake' we came up with, besides being in NY/NYC to begin with, was getting off the freeway and onto surface streets, where he could be blocked in my cars.
And not putting it in reverse and backing over any bikers he needed to in order to keep moving once he got blocked in by the cars.
He was too careful not to run anybody over. (serious)
And I sure as heck would want my handgun to have more than 6 rounds in it! I EDC either a Glock 26 (11+ rounds) or Glock 19 (16 rounds) with a spare G17 magazine (16-17 rounds) in the glovebox. That seems like a fair minimum.
With correct shot placement, yes. Now here is a scenario. You fire all 6 rounds a deer at a distance of 20 yards. Say you hit him with all rounds. What is he gonna do? Most likely just take off running just wounded. Humans are of similar weight to a big deer. Wounded equates bad if your attacker has a gun or knife, and if your shooting at him in the first place then it's safe to say your attacker has a gun or knife.
Now the good thing about people, is they are smart animals so psychologically most are going to know they were shot and break contact to flee in a survival instinct.
Certain narcotics or mental illness can negate this, but the chances fall even into a slimmer margin.
Now the good thing about people, is they are smart animals so psychologically most are going to know they were shot and break contact to flee in a survival instinct.
Certain narcotics or mental illness can negate this, but the chances fall even into a slimmer margin.
tomrkba
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Multiple men shooting at you dramatically decreases your odds of not being hit unless you have excellent cover and other advantages. Cover comes with a timer, so it would only be good until they move to negate it. No handgun would have sufficed had multiple bikers opened fire. I think that the question "Is 6 Shots Really Enough?" does not apply.
The motorcycle gang incident is being discussed elsewhere, and the number of rounds the citizen did no have is not relevant to that discussion, nor is that incident relevant to this thread.
Let's stick to the subject at hand.
Let's stick to the subject at hand.
TexasPatriot.308
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if it aint enuff...mount a bayonet lug on it...cant get more close up that that....don't be afraid....lots of us have done it.
tomrkba
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HUH?
Where do you come up with that? We are talking about tactics, round count and adversaries. It is most relevant as an example in that there were multiple potentially armed attackers and one pistol may not have been enough, much less a gun with six shot capacity.
Do not make assumptions about what your opponent will do. Some flee at the sight of a gun. Some thinks best way for their survival is to close in and finish you off.
When Lance Thomas was fighting against multiple attackers, aggressively attacking Thomas was the course of action one of the robbers took.
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Fight against multiple attackers does not automatically mean defeat. It depends on many factors. Running out of bullets befor the fight ending means death. So, "Is 6 shots really enough?" do apply. People like Lance Thomas actually fought against multiple attackers. If he bought the attutude of "If multiple armed attackers shot at me, I'll be dead anyway. So I don't need more than 6" he would have been dead.
"You're dead anyway because you can't win" is nothing more than a baseless emotional defense for those who want to believe more than 6 shot would not be needed when real world evidence clearly shows gun fight victories where more than 6 shots were fired.
Any cover can be negated. But, that does not mean maneuver to negate cover will always be successful before getting shot dead by the person behind it.
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righteoushoot
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Speaking as someone who had their NYC permit, I can say that just being in NYC is a mistake. 
But, actually obtaining a CARRY permit is next to impossible, unless you are hooked up, or some celeb like Bill Cosby. So, even if he had a permit, it would have been locked in a case, with the ammo separate.
But, actually obtaining a CARRY permit is next to impossible, unless you are hooked up, or some celeb like Bill Cosby. So, even if he had a permit, it would have been locked in a case, with the ammo separate.
It is being discussed elsewhere; firearms were not involved; and it should be plainly obvious without saying so that six rounds will very rarely be "enough" in an atypical incident involving twenty to thirty attackers.
In self defense incidents, multiple attackers are encountered not infrequently; not every shot fired will hit the attackers; and the number of hits needed to effectively stop each attacker is an unknown variable. These factors o enter into the question whether six rounds will be enough.
But an attack by a large motorcycle gang is hardly relevant, and again, there is a thread on the subject elsewhere on THR. Let's put that discussion there.
My daily carry is a S&W Model 19 blued with a 4" barrel, loaded with 125 grain loads, with a Glock 26 as backup.
I used to never second guess that 6 shots was enough until I started reading other opinions on the internet
Now I'm not so sure. I love my revolver and have shot so many thousands of rounds through it that it feels like an extension of my hand, something that I've never felt with higher capacity semi autos. I am confident that I can make meaningful hits with my 19 in a self defense situation. But what about if there are multiple attackers? What if I miss? What if, what if, what if?That's why I started carrying a G26 as backup, as much as I dislike the plastic little thing. But what if I don't have enough time to draw my backup? The uncertainty is maddening.
Am I just letting this (and the internet) get to my head? Should I not be concerned with my 6 shots?
Sorry, I only read a couple of reply's to get the gist. If you can draw that Mod 19 S&W, like glass! And get a double tap high chest area of perp #1, you most likely will not have to worry about his companions.
The round you are carrying gets the top marks in effectiveness, you have stated your total confidence in this combination, stick with it.
Me, a model 19 also. But a Glock one!
tomrkba
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I was not stating the extreme position of automatic loss; I noticed how you assumed that. I also noticed how you assume a hit is a loss; it may not be and the good guy should not give up. I meant that the situation is very difficult and the good guy needs to use every advantage. The odds are that multiple men firing at the good guy increases their odds of a hit. Their movement can negate cover and the good guy has to be aware of his adversaries' actions. Six shots goes very quickly and the good guy needs to be dialed in with whatever gun he or she has. The speed at which six shots are used is why I always carry at least two reloads for my revolver and a small backup gun with one reload.
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RealGun
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I don't think extolling the virtues of hi-cap semi-autos should hijack a thread posted in the context of revolvers.
If six shots believed inadequate, one can carry two guns or speed loaders or a cartridge belt, etc. Revolvers are tools unto themselves. I am reminded of that every time I experience how much better I shoot with my revolvers than with my semis. For one thing, I am not as cavalier about how much lead I can afford to spray around before seriously aiming at a target.
If six shots believed inadequate, one can carry two guns or speed loaders or a cartridge belt, etc. Revolvers are tools unto themselves. I am reminded of that every time I experience how much better I shoot with my revolvers than with my semis. For one thing, I am not as cavalier about how much lead I can afford to spray around before seriously aiming at a target.
I qualified Sunday to carry on the job. With a Model 65.
I scored 100%, only putting 3/50 rounds in the 9 ring (8-10 are full credit).
And was reminded, again, of how much better I shoot an automatic. I could have fired the exact same score- or better- in half the time with my CZ 75, Taurus 99, or one of my 1911s.
Choose a good fit for you, and practice.
Can we close this behemoth now? I think most meaningful posting was through 300 posts ago.
John
I scored 100%, only putting 3/50 rounds in the 9 ring (8-10 are full credit).
And was reminded, again, of how much better I shoot an automatic. I could have fired the exact same score- or better- in half the time with my CZ 75, Taurus 99, or one of my 1911s.
Choose a good fit for you, and practice.
Can we close this behemoth now? I think most meaningful posting was through 300 posts ago.
John
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