Is 6 Shots Enough?

[Skribs]

does anyone know what the average number of shots fired in an SD encounter is? My guess is that the number is pretty low.

I've heard recently that since the chance you'll have to defend yourself is so low to begin with, you're so far to the right of the bell curve that the stats don't really matter.

 

[Teachu2]

Back when I first started carrying, I was comfortable with a 2" M66, no reloads. Today, the streets are tougher and I'm older. I've progressed to a 1911 with a reload, and now am transitioning to a G30 with two reloads. I carried a BUG when on-duty LEO, but no longer. If one won't get it done, two won't either. The two reloads are really just useful ballast to balance the load - probably.

Chances are 6 is enough, but chances are you won't need a gun at all. As a wise old guy told me years ago, "If you're gonna be a bear, be a grizzly!".

 

[Teachu2]

I've heard recently that since the chance you'll have to defend yourself is so low to begin with, you're so far to the right of the bell curve that the stats don't really matter.

Stats don't matter much to victims, either. One in four billion sounds great - unless you're the One.

More ammo can buy you time - and time is on your side in defensive situations. Once shots are fired, the BGs are looking for the fastest way to be somewhere else.

 

[sirgilligan]

Is 16 too many?
Is 10 too many?
Is 8 too many?

Is 6 better than nothing?
Is 5 better than nothing?
Is 2 or 1 better than nothing?

It is possible that there is never too many.
So, six is better than five, IMO.

 

[Taroman]

Five plus a reload:

Should suffice except in the case of the coming ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE.

 

[Warp]

I try to remind myself that the average hit ratio for defensive handgun uses, across private citizens and law enforcement, is only about 20%. That would be 1 hit per 5 round revolver, for example. And as we all know handguns are weak and ineffective as a general rule, it may take 1, 2, 3, or more GOOD hits before an attacker is stopped. Even if you shoot/hit twice as effectively as the average that's still only a couple of hits out of 6 rounds (going by title here, not the two listed in OP). This, obviously, suggests that more is a pretty good idea.

But then the "average" defensive gun use (only counting when shots are fired) is, what, 3 rounds or fewer?

Unfortunately I have a very strong suspicion that the vast majority of people who think a 5 shot snub is enough to handle multiple attackers are being a bit optimistic in their assumptions.

 

[tarosean]

Serious question, does anyone know what the average number of shots fired in an SD encounter is? My guess is that the number is pretty low.

If you look around the "stats" say it's between 1-2...

 

[skeeziks]

The question is "would this be enough?" Enough for what...?
In other words, the question is being asked about a scenario that hasn't yet happened. There is no Yes or No answer to this question. If it ever comes to you having to draw & fire, maybe you'll only need 1 shot...or maybe you'll need 16!
I'm either carrying 6 rnds. of 45 acp. in a revolver or I'm carrying 7 of 'em in a P220. But alot of the time I just have my J-frame snub in a pocket holster. It's just not that easy to conceal the N-frame or the Big Sig while wearing shorts and a tank top down here in Florida.

 

[Skribs]

Is there a simplified term for this concept?

Since any defense or level of preparation can be defeated, you need to prepare and train for what you consider to be the reasonable maximum threat you can prepare for.

For example, you may prefer to have a minimum of 8, but only carry 5 or 6 when wearing shorts+tank in Florida because you feel that comfort in the hot climate is constant, while an attack is unlikely.

Or you may recognize the possibility of 11 terrorists armed with MP-5s taking over your office building to take hostages (in which case a Beretta 92 is the ultimate choice), but also recognize that if anyone comes in at work, its most likely going to be 1 disgruntled employee or a couple of street thugs looking for access to the safe. Or you may expect to be jumped by the mob at any time and constantly carry around an AR.

What do you expect to need to defend against, and what fits the parameters of that defense. That is what you need to look at. Long sentence for what I wish (and maybe there is) there was a simpler phrase for.

 

[Godsgunman]

I found myself asking this same question not to long ago myself. I used to carry a Taurus PT745 Mill PRO which was a very good gun but only had 6 rnd capacity. I ended up selling it because I felt like I wanted higher capacity so now I carry a S&W 6904 9mm w 12+1. Though it may only take me 6 shots to get the job done I like having the extra 6 already ready to go instead of having to reload or switch guns. lets face it, I can try to train and reproduce scenarios, but nothings like the real life scenario of having to defend my own life. I'm not sure how accurate/inaccurate I will be with the adrenaline coursing through my veins so the extra rounds definitely won't hinder me in my objective, only help in my opinion.

 

[coolluke01]

I second the drop the heavy revolver idea.

For me, I think that if the need for a 7th round comes up I will want it to be right after the 6th round. I don't want to have to draw a new gun and take time. Most likely you'll be moving and will have to stop or slow down to draw the 2nd gun.

I carry the G26 as my only carry gun. I feel extra mags are a better option that a Texas reload. If you feel you really want to carry the revolver I would switch the order you draw them in. The 11 round gun is the one I want to start with.

 

[oneounceload]

If you like the 45, get the G36 - 6+1, plus an extra mag should suffice nicely

 

[Skribs]

The 11 round gun is the one I want to start with.

On Americas Got Talent last week a group got 3 Xs and then said "you didn't let us get to the good stuff!"
The judge's response was "you should START with the good stuff."
Now I would like you all to please forget that I mentioned that I watch that show.

On the other hand, if he is better with a revolver than a semi-auto, then the revolver might be the better choice to start with. Just because the semi-auto has more ammo, doesn't mean it can't be the BUG. (I know there are other factors in this next example, but bear with me) my HD weapon of choice right now is either of my shotguns with 6 rounds loaded. My backup is my XDm, which can have 11 or 16 rounds.

 

[easyg]

I would just carry the Glock and an extra magazine which gives you 21 rounds on hand.

As for the question is 6 rounds enough?

Consider this :
Even the best shooters miss occasionally.
And attackers often require more than one shot to be stopped.
And sometimes attackers work in teams.

With that in mind 6 just doesn't sound like enough.

 

[Skribs]

I spoke with someone who actually concealed carried FOUR pistols every day.

That is his right, and his choice

But..........

I personally choose to not live that way.....

What four?

Also, I'm surprised nobody yet has made the pun "is six shots enough? Depends on what yer drinkin!"

 

[mavracer]

A 6 shot .45 ACP revolver (Smith and Wesson 625) with an 11 shot Glock 26 9mm as backup. The Glock 26 would only be drawn and used if all 6 shots were fired out of the 625 and more were needed.

That's more than I carry most days.

Would you consider the combination of both guns satisfactory for sustained fire in say, a multiple attacker situation?

No. your not going to be able to stand your ground and fight. of course one guy with a M-60 machine gun probably couldn't hold their position against a coordinated attack by multiple hostiles.

 

[Dean1818]

The odds of a sustained fight have to be a .0000000001 to one

Unless you are military

I would guess that the vast majority of LEOs have never and will never be in a sustained gun fight, especially since the majority have NEVER fired a single shot in a conflict

 

[Dean1818]

I think i need to rethink my CCW options to conceal an M1Abrams ........

Cause.... You never know

Is there a Crossbreed for that?


Its a free country, carry what you think you need

 

[Skribs]

Its a free country, carry what you think you need

I think the point of the question was to ask what others think they need, to maybe evaluate his own position.

 

[Kleanbore]

The odds of a sustained fight have to be a .0000000001 to one

I'm not sure how that helps us here.

The likelihood of ever needing to fire a weapon in self defense is exceeding low. However, the question of how many rounds will be enough has to be evaluated on the basis of the assumption that shooting will be required.

On that point, reflect upon the following:

Posted by easyg:

Even the best shooters miss occasionally.
And attackers often require more than one shot to be stopped.
And sometimes attackers work in teams.​

A member recently posted some statistics about sixty three actual SD encounters. See this.

The mean number of shots per encounter was 4.7 rounds. Encounters involving no shots fired were not included in the calculation. No one fired 4.7 rounds. The frequency distribution was not provided. In three quarters of the incidents, more than one attacker were involved.

We can conclude that for some of the encounters, five rounds or less were sufficient--that's somewhere between one and five, inclusive. We can conclude that for some, more than five were most probably required. We do not know the maximum. We do not know what would was required for the sixty fourth or subsequent data points. And if we did, we would not be able to conclude very much about the maximum based on such a small data sample.

In point of fact, we cannot say how many shots are "enough" until the situation arises, and then, the answer only applies to that incident.

We can only make an informed judgment. I often carry five, but I prefer more.

This recent episode of The Best Defense is relevant and is worth watching.

 

[ghitch75]

i'll take my 8 + 1 Defender....for wheelies close to a 625.....325PD loaded with these 6 + 12.....no Tupperware here

 

[mljdeckard]

Even in the military most fights are over pretty quickly. Whenever possible we go in with overwhelming force.

 

[jeepnik]

Five plus a reload:

Should suffice except in the case of the coming ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE.

Yep, the old New York reload. Nothing faster, and you always have a spare.
By the way, who makes this holster?

 

[Warp]

Not only does that qualify as a new york reload, but a brace (two of the same)

 

[jeepnik]

Not only does that qualify as a new york reload, but a brace (two of the same)

I've got one Colt Detective Special. Now "IF" I had another, that would give me twelve. Hmm. Nah Dick Specials are getting rare as hen's teeth and more costly than you'd imagine.