Is 6 Shots Enough?

[TimboKhan]

One of my favorite guns to carry, and for a long time my only carry gun, is a Taurus 605. I basically trade capacity for caliber, as I have much more faith in a .357 than I do in any autoloading pistol caliber. Thats not to say I have no faith in 9mm or .45, as much as it is to say I simply have more faith in the .357 as a fighting round. My other carry gun is a 9mm, and so there I am trading a little less faith for more holes.

Additionally, a speed strip takes up no room in the pocket, so in theory i can have 10-15 (or more) available rounds on my person with no real penalty to weight or space. Much slower reloads though.

 

[gym]

It's a subjective question, if you only had 6, then it's enough. What you want may not be what you need. Perhaps 2 reloads and, or, a second gun.

 

[hentown]

I'd put that revolver in a museum and carry the G26.

 

[atomd]

This whole multiple attacker thing is kind of funny. Now, multiple people may attack you...that's very true. Especially these days...the gang mentality seems stronger than ever. The whole idea that you have 6 rounds, and are being attacked by 3-6 people....you use 6 rounds on some of them but the ones you miss or can't hit because of a lack of ammo get to you and kill you. That is ridiculous.

People tend to flee as soon as shots are fired. It's a survival instinct that really only gets muted by training (which most street thugs don't do). People want to avoid potentially deadly conflicts. That's why criminals usually pick the easiest target....they don't want to get shot anymore than anyone else does.

So these guys are just going to purposely charge into gunfire, watching their friends being shot, hoping your run out of ammo before you shoot them...all to get the $40 out of your wallet? I doubt it.

On the news the other day I saw that guy dressed as a zombie approach an entire basketball court full of guys and they all ran. Even if it really was a zombie those guys could have easily taken control of the situation but they didn't....because secretly no one wants to be the guy that doesn't make it through the conflict.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by atomd: People tend to flee as soon as shots are fired.

Personally, I would not want to bet everything on what people "tend" to do.

....they don't want to get shot anymore than anyone else does.

So, the question is, what is the best way for someone with an edged weapon who has moved into slashing range of you to avoid getting shot--to complete the attack while you are occupied with shooting someone else, or to run, giving you time to shoot him should you choose to do so?

So these guys are just going to purposely charge into gunfire, watching their friends being shot, hoping your run out of ammo before you shoot them...all to get the $40 out of your wallet? I doubt it.

For $40, probably not, but if your car and you keys are essential for their escape; if taking you out is a likely possibility and appears to be the best method for survival at the moment; and if the attacker is under the influence of certain kinds of drugs; you cannot count on the attacker breaking off his attack simply because you are shooting someone else.

 

[gym]

I have mentioned similar thinking in 2 current posts, but we never know what the circumstances are going to be, so a couple of reloads would be much smarter. Even as far a changing to a FMJ from a hollowpoint, for a vechicle or barrier. No one knows what the other guy or guys are going to do. Although I carried a 5 shot model 60 for 20 years, things have changed, Now minimum is my 8 round 9mm, with a 7 round mag reload. Or a 26 with a plus 2 and a spare in the glove box. No one knows you may miss a few times if there are people moving and shooting, may as well have some extra rounds.
Especially at night when it's difficult to see the target clearlly.

 

[Warp]

This whole multiple attacker thing is kind of funny. Now, multiple people may attack you...that's very true. Especially these days...the gang mentality seems stronger than ever. The whole idea that you have 6 rounds, and are being attacked by 3-6 people....you use 6 rounds on some of them but the ones you miss or can't hit because of a lack of ammo get to you and kill you. That is ridiculous.

People tend to flee as soon as shots are fired. It's a survival instinct that really only gets muted by training (which most street thugs don't do). People want to avoid potentially deadly conflicts. That's why criminals usually pick the easiest target....they don't want to get shot anymore than anyone else does.

So these guys are just going to purposely charge into gunfire, watching their friends being shot, hoping your run out of ammo before you shoot them...all to get the $40 out of your wallet? I doubt it.

On the news the other day I saw that guy dressed as a zombie approach an entire basketball court full of guys and they all ran. Even if it really was a zombie those guys could have easily taken control of the situation but they didn't....because secretly no one wants to be the guy that doesn't make it through the conflict.

You are making an awful lot of assumptions here.

Assumptions that could very, very easily prove incorrect.

 

[Hammerdown77]

I think carrying a backup is good, not just for extra rounds, but in case your primary malfunctions. That's the same reason you should always carry an extra magazine, for malfunction clearance. Murphy's Law, and all that.

Also, you do not want to be holding an empty gun at the end of a gunfight (just in case it's not really the end). Or in the middle of one...

 

[atomd]

We're talking needing more ammo, which assumes you have exhausted your supply...which means someone has either been shot or shot at. This scenario is only valid if you have fired 5 or more shots MINIMUM (most people don't carry anything that holds less than 5 rounds).

I don't remember ever hearing about a civilian that was killed by being overrun by multiple attackers after exhausting his supply of ammo. Sure, more capacity is better if all else is equal...no one is going to argue that having less ammo is better except when other factors come into play. When you don't feel like strapping on your bulky, heavy, full size service pistol for that quick trip to walk the dog or picking up some milk at the store 4 blocks away, now you have 0 ammo. What if you can only realistically carry so much on you? Not everyone can have everything they need on them at all times.

You're going out at dusk to walk the dog. You're almost positive you'll be back before dark. You're not wearing a 5.11 vest with every gadget known to man in it. You can only carry so much with you. Would you rather have a pistol with 17 rounds in it, along with 3 spare mags....or would you rather have a flashlight, a knife, and a S&W 442? Which one is being more/less prepared? You could argue either way.....I'm a realist so I'll take option #2. I'm preparing for it getting dark faster than I imagined rather than preparing for being attacked by 8 thugs. It tends to get dark. I don't tend to get attacked by 8 thugs. And even if that happens I have a gun....which is a lot better than having no gun.

 

[atomd]

Seems there's a lot of belt+suspenders guys around. That's ok too. Different strokes for different folks. I'm happy with 7 rounds (although I sometimes do/have carried pistols with 9 and 18 in them). If I do get attacked and killed by a mob of thugs after firing all 7 rounds, I give permission to have "This dummy should have carried a higher capacity handgun" engraved under my name on my tombstone.

 

[Warp]

You're going out at dusk to walk the dog. You're almost positive you'll be back before dark.

You can only carry so much with you.

And that is the same thing I always carry with me. At minimum it includes 11 service caliber rounds, a primary flashlight, a keychain backup flashlight (180 lumens of backup), pepper spray, cell phone, wallet, etc.

lol at suggesting that a 5 shot snub revolver is required in order to also carry a flashlight.

 

[coalman]

Any scenario can be imaged and it comes down to a balance of probabilty and comfort. 6 is enough as long as you don't need 7. Simple as that. Statistics are all well and good until they're not. 6 is not enough for me though as I opt to avoid the gun I regret having when I need it.

 

[FMF Doc]

"You are only out gunned if you miss."--Col. Jeff Cooper

You are asking the wrong question to the problem. It doesn't matter how many targets there are, or how many shots you have, what caliber they are or anything else. If you don't hit what you are shooting at, then you will never have enough rounds, be it 1, 5 or 100. Additionally, a second gun, while often a good idea and a viable alternative, is not replacement for a good reload. That goes for revolvers as well as autoloaders. Just because it isn't drop-slap-rack-bang, doesn't mean that you can not quickly and effectively reload a revolver to stay in the fight. I would not want to start out with a 5-shot .45ACP revolver and then under preasure, fighting for my life, have to switch to a subcompact glock 9mm. Totatlly different platform, feeling..everything! I don't know all of you background and skill, but that is a skill that will require a TON of training to develope. If you like the revolver, learn to shoot it well, and learn to reload. There is no excuse not to. It all comes down to accuracy and skill of the shooter.

 

[atomd]

And that is the same thing I always carry with me. At minimum it includes 11 service caliber rounds, a primary flashlight, a keychain backup flashlight (180 lumens of backup), pepper spray, cell phone, wallet, etc.

lol at suggesting that a 5 shot snub revolver is required in order to also carry a flashlight.

I'm comparing sizes and weights of items. I didn't say it was required. There is a limit at some point for everyone or else we would all just carry everything in our house with us at all times. That EDC commando youtube stuff is a bunch of bs that doesn't float in a lot of people's lives. I'm not saying you are overboard (I sometimes carry a similar group of items) but some of these guys mentioning carrying 4 guns? That's insanity.

Try going for a jog or riding a bike with that stuff you carry on....you'll get sick of it real quick. Try wearing all of that while wearing a shirt and tie to a business meeting in the summer. Sure it might be doable but people will wonder why you have things all over your belt and look like your smuggling bricks in your pockets.

You can only carry so much and not everyone can wear wranglers, an oversized hawaiian shirt, wilderness belt, etc 24/7. I can put those items in the pockets of a pair of sweatpants @ 3am and be out the door in no time. To carry those items you mentioned you need at least a belt...which means putting on or changing pants, possibly putting a belt on, holstering a gun if it wasn't already in the holster and then attaching those items to your belt, etc. Would you do that @ 3am if your dog needed to go out or your fire alarm was going off? Would you have all that on your if you were at the basketball court or running down some trails? I don't think a lot of people would.

 

[Warp]

I'm comparing sizes and weights of items. I didn't say it was required. There is a limit at some point for everyone or else we would all just carry everything in our house with us at all times. That EDC commando youtube stuff is a bunch of bs that doesn't float in a lot of people's lives. I'm not saying you are overboard (I sometimes carry a similar group of items) but some of these guys mentioning carrying 4 guns? That's insanity.

Try going for a jog or riding a bike with that stuff you carry on....you'll get sick of it real quick. Try wearing all of that while wearing a shirt and tie to a business meeting in the summer. Sure it might be doable but people will wonder why you have things all over your belt and look like your smuggling bricks in your pockets.

You can only carry so much and not everyone can wear wranglers, an oversized hawaiian shirt, wilderness belt, etc 24/7. I can put those items in the pockets of a pair of sweatpants @ 3am and be out the door in no time. To carry those items you mentioned you need at least a belt...which means putting on or changing pants, possibly putting a belt on, holstering a gun if it wasn't already in the holster and then attaching those items to your belt, etc. Would you do that @ 3am if your dog needed to go out or your fire alarm was going off? Would you have all that on your if you were at the basketball court or running down some trails? I don't think a lot of people would.

Mostly I think your example was just plain silly. If you are limited to a certain total size/weight of items, then after the duty pistol with 17 rounds you fill out the other items, such as the flashlight. You don't pack two full size spare magazines and leave the flashlight at home. While walking the dog at dusk. Because you feel that the only two options are a 5 shot snub or a duty pistol + 2 spare mags. That is just plain silly.

If it's a business meeting I'll have a briefcase, satchel bag, etc, with me. Things like a pocket knife, one of the flashlights, spare batteries, even my phone, etc, can go in there.

When my dog needs to go out at 3am I open the back door and let him out. I don't even go outside. If I do go outside it is into my private, fenced, residential backyard with good lighting...and two big dogs. I can always grab a flashlight from the counter top and a handgun from the coffee table, though.

If my fire alarm was going off I probably wouldn't be worried about picking up a gun. Even if I was, an airweight snub nose J-frame would STILL be too much gun to put in a pocket (pajama pants, some without pockets at all, or gym shorts). If my fire alarm was going off I would be far more concerned with finding out why, grabbing a fire extinguisher, calling the fire dept, getting the cats/dogs round up, pulling the car out of the attached garage, grabbing the computer/documents, etc etc.

BTW: I have gone running many times with my Glock 26 on me.

 

[fastbolt]

Is 6 Shots Enough?

A 6 shot .45 ACP revolver (Smith and Wesson 625) with an 11 shot Glock 26 9mm as backup. The Glock 26 would only be drawn and used if all 6 shots were fired out of the 625 and more were needed.

I've felt a little "lacking in capacity" lately, so I've added the G26 as backup. Would you consider the combination of both guns satisfactory for sustained fire in say, a multiple attacker situation?

Why wouldn't you just carry the G26 as your primary in the first place, if you had "capacity" concerns? Or a G19, M&P 9 or something similar?

These sort of threads never result in any sort of definitive answer that's considered acceptable or practical by many folks.

I spent a career in LE work, and worked as a firearms instructor for most of it. I started my career carrying a 6-shot service revolver and ended it carrying a 7+1 capacity compact .45 pistol (plainclothes assignment). I could have chosen to carry either an all-steel, full-size .45 (8+1) or a .40 S&W (11+1), if I'd wanted. In between those times I carried some different hi-cap 9/.40 pistols.

I never felt "under-gunned" or "lacking in capacity".

As a matter of fact, if I were to return to an active LE job today, I'd not lose any sleep if I were told I'd be carrying a single stack pistol in any of the major service calibers, or even a service revolver again ... although, if given an option I'd choose an 8-shot Scandium N-frame .357 Magnum over an all-steel 6-shot revolver.

Some folks seem inclined to carry more hardware on their person for their everyday activities than I carried when working in uniform.

Whenever I hear someone talking about going to higher capacity handguns for lawful concealed weapon usage, or carrying more than one handgun, I wonder to myself if they've also decided to upgrade their knowledge, skills, training, practice, experience & mindset to go along with it.

 

[Certaindeaf]

My crystal ball says "perhaps".

 

[MedWheeler]

Six shots is always enough... until it isn't. Point is, how are you, or any of us, gonna know?

 

[gym]

You should carry what you are comfortable with, trying to change someon elses mind will have no effect on the question either way. If you feel ok with a 5 or 6 round wheel gun then that's what you should have. No need to make up scenarios to prove a point, it's a subjective question, like what engine do you prefer, some have to drive a v8, while a 4 cylinder is fine for others.
When your ticket get's punched it will probablly not be in the manner you planned for.

 

[Dean1818]

I think for everyone they need to pick what they feel comfortable with

I live in an extremely safe area of north Texas, and i cannot imagine a scenaro where multiple attackers and I would end up in a protracted gunfight.

I just dont see it happening........ Maybe I am naive



I feel fine with my 7 in my CM9.

I also would feel fine with a 5 shot revolver.....(I am looking at getting an LCR for pocket carry)

 

[atomd]

Mostly I think your example was just plain silly. If you are limited to a certain total size/weight of items, then after the duty pistol with 17 rounds you fill out the other items, such as the flashlight. You don't pack two full size spare magazines and leave the flashlight at home. While walking the dog at dusk. Because you feel that the only two options are a 5 shot snub or a duty pistol + 2 spare mags. That is just plain silly.

Sheesh. I didn't intend for anyone to take my examples completely literally. I was getting at "people have limitations". A full sized duty gun is not within 100% of the population's limitations 100% of every waking moment while not at home. There's a million scenarios, wardrobes or other limitations that would prevent that from being a good option for some.

No one cares how you walk your dog or that you live in a nice neighborhood. I was simply using the dog as one example why someone may need to go outside at night. It could be for any reason at all. Not everyone is just like you and I don't think they are much less prepared than you if they choose to carry something with a smaller capacity :banghead: (that is unless this ever-growing epidemic of people dying from running out of ammo while shooting gangs of thugs in the streets continues)....of course.

 

[clang]

"I spoke with someone who actually concealed carried FOUR pistols every day."

Was he The Road Warrior?

Really - just how many zombies are in your neighborhood? 6 rounds of .45 ACP should cover just about anything short of a war zone, and if you are in a war zone, get a rifle.

The 625 also happens to be one of the fastest reloading revolvers out there when you use full moon clips. It also is one of the most reliable guns in existance.

Now unless you are Mr. & Mrs. Smith and you carry an extra gun to give your wife when the zombies attack becasue she just can't hide her own in the string bikini she wears everywhere, the 625 OR the Glock should be plenty protection with a couple of reloads for insurance.

There is also a downside to carrying more than one handgun. If you carry twice as many guns, you are twice as likely to accidentally expose a concealed weapon. They can also get heavy.

 

[AFDavis11]

It's uncertain. Odds are your the type to fire one round and sit there staring at the mess you just made, or you'll empty most of the gun and then stare at the mess you just made.

Sometimes you'll just sit there in shock and wonder how you didn't hit anything.

I prefer a revolver, because safety and simplicity are important to me, but I've never heard anyone complain about the weight of the ammo they were carrying.

 

[NG VI]

It's better than five.

It's not as good as seven.

That's how the formula works, and it works until you start to take on an unreasonable amount of weight and bulk for a higher number.

Personally I like size-efficient guns. The FNP-9M, Glock 19/26, CZ PCR, those are guns with very respectable capacity for the grip length and girth.

And yes I think some six shot gun on top of a Glock 26 is one gun beyond enough.

I'd expect to start leaving the large, heavy, slower to reload and harder to carry reloads for revolver home in favor of a second magazine for the 26. Much less weight and bulk to deal with, less than the revolver by itself, and a total of 21 rounds if using flush baseplates on the Glock magazines. 26 if you carry an easier to grab 19 magazine with a sleeve on it.

 

[gym]

Guys when you say you live in a nice neighboorhood, that's where bad guys go to rob, they aren't going to get anything where they live. Also in this economy there is no neighboorhood that is above being robbed. I had my worse problems in good neighboorhoods.
As I mentioned I can only live my life according to what I feel ok with. In NYC for 20+ years I carried a 5 shot model 60, or a walther PPKS, I never felt like I needed more, now If I were back there I would carry a glock with a spare mag. That's where I had my home invasion, in a 30 story luxory high rise building with around the clock security and attended parking, it doesn't matter where you live. Many times you need to go through bad areas to get to where you live, "like Fl", and NY, one wrong turn and you can be in a world of hurt. Remember the folks from europe who got lost around Miami airport? they were shot down by gang bangers because they got lost. Stuff happens.