Where do you rank the 38 snubby as far as a defensive weapon
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couldbeanyone
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I'm not dropping a loaded gun. If a threat still exists after the first five, I'll drop an empty gun and go to the second. If the threat is ended with the first one through four, if I see no further immediate threat, I can transition to the second and reholster the first. My second gun will likely be drawn left handed, depending on which gun I drew first of course. That is one of the reasons I like carrying two, it is always good to be able to access a gun no matter what your other hand may be occupied with. We are of course all working on our weak handed draw and shooting skills aren't we?
If you're shooting to save your life, I strongly recommend that you keep shooting until you have no other choice but to stop. When you are forced to stop, I strongly recommend that, as fast as is humanly possible, you do whatever will get you shooting again.
Once a gun is empty, it is of no use to you. If you are in the process of saving your life, I strongly recommend that you spend no time at all messing with things that aren't going to help you save your life.
Shoot the gun until it is empty, drop it and get your next gun out as fast as possible, (or drop the mag and get the next mag in as fast as possible) and then keep shooting if necessary.
If you have the time to think about reloading when your gun is still capable of shooting, and feel safe enough to stop shooting a gun that will still shoot, then maybe you should be thinking about using that time and safety to get away instead of continuing to fight.
If one gun is still functioning, but will shortly be empty, what's the downside to drawing the other one? You can still brace your firing hand with the BUG hand. That might not be optimal, but its got to be superior to running out and then having to draw.
X-Rap
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My question came from my personal views in comparing a semi auto with at least 10 Rd capacity or the much touted New York Reload. I am more convinced than ever that 10 shots on tap with another 10 in reserve far surpasses 5 in each.
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Zendude
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Snubs can compare favorably to semiautos that can be considered "pocket guns". A typical semiauto pocket gun is usually a 380 with two or three more rounds than a snub. I have carried both and each has good and bad points. Accuracy is about the same - both are more difficult to shoot accurately than a mid size semiauto or a revolver with a 4 inch barrel.
fireman 9731
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In regards to the "New York reload", I would like to see what percentage of concealed carriers are actually carrying multiple guns. I would have to wager that its a pretty small number.
Police officers, sure, but Mr. or Mrs. John Q Public concealed carrier is not packing multiple guns on a routine basis.
Police officers, sure, but Mr. or Mrs. John Q Public concealed carrier is not packing multiple guns on a routine basis.
Zendude
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LivingTheDream
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Chief Special
Ask yourself why the S&W 38 Snubby was called a "Chief Special". For good reason. It is a great backup. It is my everyday carry.
Ask yourself why the S&W 38 Snubby was called a "Chief Special". For good reason. It is a great backup. It is my everyday carry.
Kendal Black
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For me the .38 snub is like an old and trusted friend. I am aware of its peculiarities and shortcomings and we're still pals. I have long since solved the riddle of the DA trigger. I know how to do an inspection and function checkup that will likely turn up any problems that affect operation. If I can't get my preferred ammo, the revolver will soldier on with whatever .38 Special I can find or make.
An objection stated above seems to be that it will not fire ten rounds. Well, of course not: count the holes in the cylinder. But if you do not ask it to do things it manifestly cannot, you will find it very good at what it does. It stays out of sight, offers minimal mechanical or functional trouble over the long haul, is highly resistant to pocket lint...
Is it enough gun? (You should, as Ruark says, always use enough gun.) Well, I dunno. It is a bit of a gun, at least, and ever-present because it is small enough to take with you nearly anywhere, and the cartridge is at least not a pathetic one, though bigger and faster bullets are no doubt better. More bullets would definitely be better, but where would you fit them into the gun?
The contrast or comparison here is not between the .38 snub and bigger, more capable guns. I would say it is a niche weapon, and that niche is something you carry in preference to having no gun, because a bigger gun is not practical. Compared to other guns of about equal size it is, on the whole, less bother. It is something you can keep in your pocket, not even thinking of it most days, and expect it to come through for you on the dreaded day when you actually need to take it out of your pocket.
Although I am not sure on this point, I think that the curved and rounded shapes of the revolver print less, or less obviously, than the more squared off and blocky outline of an auto pistol. Some people see what I mean on that point, while others see little difference, so I'll leave that point up in the air.
An objection stated above seems to be that it will not fire ten rounds. Well, of course not: count the holes in the cylinder. But if you do not ask it to do things it manifestly cannot, you will find it very good at what it does. It stays out of sight, offers minimal mechanical or functional trouble over the long haul, is highly resistant to pocket lint...
Is it enough gun? (You should, as Ruark says, always use enough gun.) Well, I dunno. It is a bit of a gun, at least, and ever-present because it is small enough to take with you nearly anywhere, and the cartridge is at least not a pathetic one, though bigger and faster bullets are no doubt better. More bullets would definitely be better, but where would you fit them into the gun?
The contrast or comparison here is not between the .38 snub and bigger, more capable guns. I would say it is a niche weapon, and that niche is something you carry in preference to having no gun, because a bigger gun is not practical. Compared to other guns of about equal size it is, on the whole, less bother. It is something you can keep in your pocket, not even thinking of it most days, and expect it to come through for you on the dreaded day when you actually need to take it out of your pocket.
Although I am not sure on this point, I think that the curved and rounded shapes of the revolver print less, or less obviously, than the more squared off and blocky outline of an auto pistol. Some people see what I mean on that point, while others see little difference, so I'll leave that point up in the air.
X-Rap
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You would be correct
in pointing out that the revolver fits that niche.
What I disagree with is the notion that one can simply stack more of them in empty pockets to achieve what you can get with an arguably larger pistol.
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in pointing out that the revolver fits that niche.
What I disagree with is the notion that one can simply stack more of them in empty pockets to achieve what you can get with an arguably larger pistol.
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Blacksmoke
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For me the whole issue boils down to what I will actually pick up and carry every day without thinking it is too heavy or bulky. Sure, a higher capacity autoloader would be more effective in a bad situation, ditto a Colt Python but I am not likely to bother with them regularly. The point being one has to have the weapon with them all the time, not just in anticipation of a special event like carrying the week's cash proceeds to the bank. Put it on the belt or in a pocket and forget about it until needed.
The ones that stayed with me all the time were a Colt Detective Special and then a S&W made PPK. Sadly, I no longer own either.
The ones that stayed with me all the time were a Colt Detective Special and then a S&W made PPK. Sadly, I no longer own either.
Hangingrock
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Too heavy or bulky thus opting for example a S&W J frame (5) shot revolver with 2 inch barrel. That's the often utilized reasoning with the fall back of its better than nothing.
In my 7th decade I do not find as an example a S&W MP9c in the warm weather months or a SW MP9 in cooler months to be too heavy or bulky carried concealed during my daily activates which includes walking (22 minute miles on average) several miles a day, normal day to day tasks and interacting in public with the general population.
Occasionally I'll carry a S&W M640 as a back up and as in a previously stated post on this subject. Never-never in a primary carry application.
In my 7th decade I do not find as an example a S&W MP9c in the warm weather months or a SW MP9 in cooler months to be too heavy or bulky carried concealed during my daily activates which includes walking (22 minute miles on average) several miles a day, normal day to day tasks and interacting in public with the general population.
Occasionally I'll carry a S&W M640 as a back up and as in a previously stated post on this subject. Never-never in a primary carry application.
Tallball
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I don't mind shooting my 38 alloy-framed j frame. It doesn't hurt. I have shot many thousands of rounds through snubbies in my lifetime. I understand that there are people who find shooting 38 snubs to be unpleasant. But there are also many of us who enjoy it. I have no particular reason for shooting mine any more or any less than any of my other carry or hd handguns.
Now the micro 380's, that is a different story. I have big hands that will be bleeding in a couple of places if I shoot a whole box of ammo through one of those.
Now the micro 380's, that is a different story. I have big hands that will be bleeding in a couple of places if I shoot a whole box of ammo through one of those.
Monster Zero
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Excellent post, thank you for the clarity.
Kleanbore said:
As I mentioned previously, each of us has to evaluate our individual situations and prepare accordingly.
In my case, I'm a very unlikely target.
And if by some weird chance I am faced with a critical incident, I won't be an unarmed victim. I feel well prepared with my 38 snub and at PD distances I'm accurate with it. I fully understand that others face a different threat profile and their needs dictate heavier armament.
couldbeanyone
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Not at all. That is just a 1.30 draw and first shot, then three .23 splits. When you consider that a truly amazing shooter like a Jerry Miculek can draw and fire the first in .9 or so and can fire .15 splits with a snubby, I look downright slothlike by comparison. If I could do it in 1.40 instead of 2.0, then that would be pretty impressive.
Snubbies are truly not that hard to shoot well. Some of the things we consider to be negatives about the guns can also be positives. The light weight and compactness of the guns that contribute to their fast snappy recoil, also help the gun be faster coming back on target as you bring it back down out of recoil. Their light weight also make them very fast transitioning between targets.
As an experiment, set up a steel challenge stage and shoot it with a snubby, you will find it starts and stops like a formula 1 car with little chance of overswinging a target. Then, shoot the same stage with a 6 inch Smith 686. It will start and stop with the speed of a loaded cement mixer by comparison.
Am I saying we should all be using snubbies for our steel challenge guns? Of course not, I'm just saying that some of the things that make them hard to shoot well, can also make them in ways, easier to shoot fast. Believe me, our arms can snap a 15 oz. gun back down out of recoil far easier than a 40 oz. gun with less chance of overtravel when coming back on target.
In my experience, while snubbies can be snappy in recoil, they seldom seem to exibit the barrel in the sky muzzle climb that some longer barreled guns can exhibit.
If a person can forget about it being a snubby and put some time in with one, most will find that while they aren't easy to shoot well, they aren't THAT hard to shoot well either.
C5rider
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Ask yourself this question.
How much do YOU want to stand in front of it!
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I'll go back out on that limb and say again I'd rcmmend a good snub as as a first time cpl piece. In .38 you have the benefit of firing sequenced dry fire to improve trigger control, simple manual of arms, safer carry and you can shoot bunny fart loads to practice and work your way up to a comfortable level of recoil. A small .380 or 9 would not be what I would recommend for a first time cpl. I've been shooting for almost 30 years and started on autoloaders.
If you're shooting to save your life then anything that stops you from shooting, is stopping you from doing something that you are doing to try to save your life. In other words, it's inadvisable, to say the least.
If you're not shooting to save your life then it doesn't really matter what you do or how you do it.
If you're shooting to save your life then you shoot until you HAVE to stop shooting. I guess I don't see how not shooting because the gun is empty is worse than not shooting because of a decision to change guns.
Which is worse? Starving to death with some food left or starving to death after all available food is gone? Seems like the outcome is the same, and, if anything, the former makes less sense.
Taking a time out to swap one gun with ammo in it for another gun with ammo in it while someone is doing their best to kill you doesn't begin to make sense to me.
Voluntarily adopting an inferior shooting grip in a situation where you don't have to do so and where you should be doing your best to keep yourself alive by shooting fast and accurately doesn't make sense to me either.
Being able to make 4 A-zone hits at 5 yards in less than 3/4 of a second with a snubby revolver seems pretty good to me.
The fact that Jerry can do better (although I can't recall ever having seen him draw from concealment in 0.9 seconds or achieve 0.15 splits with a snubby while making all A-zone hits) isn't that surprising since he's pretty much the best in the world when it comes to making a revolver perform.
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