This caliber vs that caliber.
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troy fairweather
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Don't think you will ever get answer that every one will agree on.
VoodooMountain
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Wounding is often disproportionately better above .338.
6mm calibers are also quite limited to the game they can effectively and consistently harvest. They rely on velocity.
6mm calibers are also quite limited to the game they can effectively and consistently harvest. They rely on velocity.
Varminterror
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A guy merely has to look at the bullet weight offerings within these calibers to understand the breaks, which tend to correlate to the game weights for which they are used. Using your examples: 6mm’s tend to top out around 105-110grns, with the 115 Dtac’s being a fast twist novelty. 6.5’s, alternatively, run up 140-160grn - obviously more capable of extreme penetration on heavier game. Most 35 cal rifle cartridges do not carry commensurate case capacity, simply existing as necked up 30 cal cases. Such, their horsepower isn’t all there, and their bullet weight capacity isn’t what it really should be for their caliber. A 180grn 308win will solve anything which is sorted by a 220grn 35 Rem. Equally, the 375 cases are commensurately larger, resulting in far greater power factor, typically with a greater bullet weight capacity to make use of all of that powder.
Jim Watson
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But will it handle what a 358 Win will?
.35 Whelen? .350 Rigby? .35 G&H? .358 Norma?
Kind of a bygone day, but in the plain softpoint era, there were .35s in proportion to the need.
MTMilitiaman
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It is the plague of the gun world. When I first started on these online gun boards, caliber wars seemed both entertaining and relevant. As I have gained more experience, I have come to understand that we spend the most time discussing the things that actually matter the least. Now caliber wars seem like an obligation at best, and always so trivial.
Whether hunting, competition, or defense, being effective is going to be 99% shot placement. Of that remaining 1%, probably .5% is bullet performance. In the last .5%, we have caliber, gun make and model, and all the other useless crap we spend 99% of our time squabbling about like old maids in a sowing circle. It really it quite ridiculous.
Whether hunting, competition, or defense, being effective is going to be 99% shot placement. Of that remaining 1%, probably .5% is bullet performance. In the last .5%, we have caliber, gun make and model, and all the other useless crap we spend 99% of our time squabbling about like old maids in a sowing circle. It really it quite ridiculous.
Caliber isn't nearly as important as the bullets sectional density. The other key is to be able to shoot them fast enough to impact at speeds necessary to expand.. At the end of the day SD that is the best predictor of a bullets effectiveness on game and 26-30 caliber is the sweet spot as is 375. The diameter of the bullet hole is insignificant. In fact larger bullet diameters can limit penetration.
Here is what you need to know. If you use bullets with similar sectional densities, (SD) you get the same penetration regardless of caliber. A 6.5 mm bullet in the 140 gr range has about the same SD as a 150 gr 270, or 175 gr 7mm, or 180 gr .308 bullet and all will penetrate pretty much the same in game assuming the same bullet construction. No game animal will know the difference between any of the 4 regardless of the cartridge you fire them in Shooting the 180 30 caliber bullet in a 300 WM just ensures minimum impact speeds farther down range than the same bullet fired from 308. At any range where they impact at 2000 fps or more they do the same thing.
In order to match that SD with 6mm you need 115-120 gr bullets. Not many options for 6mm cartridges that will handle bullets that heavy and shoot them fast enough to ensure expansion...You run into the same problem with anything between 30 and 375. To match the same SD's you really have to go heavy. A 200, or 220 gr 30 caliber bullet will significantly out penetrate a 250 gr 35 caliber bullet. You'd need to go up to almost 300 gr in 35 caliber to match a 30 caliber for penetration. And then you have the issue of shooting it fast enough, and if you do, then recoil is horrendous. You run into a similar issue with the 33's.
The 375 caliber is the point where you can again get good SD's and still be able to shoot them fast enough to make a difference. The 375 shoot flat enough to be a viable long range cartridge. Anything bigger than 375 is a true big bore stopper, but not as versatile for longer ranges.
Here is what you need to know. If you use bullets with similar sectional densities, (SD) you get the same penetration regardless of caliber. A 6.5 mm bullet in the 140 gr range has about the same SD as a 150 gr 270, or 175 gr 7mm, or 180 gr .308 bullet and all will penetrate pretty much the same in game assuming the same bullet construction. No game animal will know the difference between any of the 4 regardless of the cartridge you fire them in Shooting the 180 30 caliber bullet in a 300 WM just ensures minimum impact speeds farther down range than the same bullet fired from 308. At any range where they impact at 2000 fps or more they do the same thing.
In order to match that SD with 6mm you need 115-120 gr bullets. Not many options for 6mm cartridges that will handle bullets that heavy and shoot them fast enough to ensure expansion...You run into the same problem with anything between 30 and 375. To match the same SD's you really have to go heavy. A 200, or 220 gr 30 caliber bullet will significantly out penetrate a 250 gr 35 caliber bullet. You'd need to go up to almost 300 gr in 35 caliber to match a 30 caliber for penetration. And then you have the issue of shooting it fast enough, and if you do, then recoil is horrendous. You run into a similar issue with the 33's.
The 375 caliber is the point where you can again get good SD's and still be able to shoot them fast enough to make a difference. The 375 shoot flat enough to be a viable long range cartridge. Anything bigger than 375 is a true big bore stopper, but not as versatile for longer ranges.
skeeterfogger
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No splitting hairs. Just stick with what's standard readily available. 30-06 has lots of weights available. I've found 165 and 167 gn bullets work really good. 308 win and 7.62 nato do to.
243, 80, 90 and 100gn and 270, 130 and 150gn has its advantages on smaller of big game
243, 80, 90 and 100gn and 270, 130 and 150gn has its advantages on smaller of big game
JeeperCreeper
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Ratio of scale...
If you have a stock Jeep with 29.5" tires, and jump to 31", it looks huge.
But spotting a 35" vs a 37" can be tricky.
I'm sure there's a math way to prove it, maybe volume or surface area instead of pure diameter like caliber is.
If you have a stock Jeep with 29.5" tires, and jump to 31", it looks huge.
But spotting a 35" vs a 37" can be tricky.
I'm sure there's a math way to prove it, maybe volume or surface area instead of pure diameter like caliber is.
Riomouse911
Member
It gives us all something to stake our hats on and hold a position when talking to other shooter/hunter types.
It’s been my experience that the guys who argue the least about caliber X vs caliber Y are those who early on found the one that kills the game they’re after with the least amount of fuss. It may be because they only have the means or desire for just one gun...or they cut their teeth on a .30-‘06 and never needed anything else. (From a guy with no ‘06 hunting guns... you just can’t argue with the versatility of the old warhorse!)
Caliber discussions can be fun ways to pass the time...until they get personal.
Stay safe.
It’s been my experience that the guys who argue the least about caliber X vs caliber Y are those who early on found the one that kills the game they’re after with the least amount of fuss. It may be because they only have the means or desire for just one gun...or they cut their teeth on a .30-‘06 and never needed anything else. (From a guy with no ‘06 hunting guns... you just can’t argue with the versatility of the old warhorse!
) Caliber discussions can be fun ways to pass the time...until they get personal
. Stay safe.
Garandimal
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The answer, of course, is the 9.3x62.
Now, what was the question...?
GR
Now, what was the question...?
GR
js8588
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Texasgrillchef
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I agree almost 99%, I would say more like 95% shot placement. You can have perfect shot placement, but if the projectile is unable to make good penetration, you may not get your needed kill. (Let’s assume we are trying to make a kill rather then injur). An example of this... is someone wearing body armor, or a thick skinned animal. A .22lr isn’t going to penetrate an elephant very well, or the skull of many animals, or of body armor.
So power of the bullet being fired can make a lot of difference in some cases. Although in human to human firearm combat without body armor, and other objects in the way. Any caliber/cartridge can get a human kill with proper shot placement.
I think IMHO most people think most not about what caliber/cartridge will make the best kill, but also consider other factors, such as noise, cost, and even collateral damage, as well as limiting the damage to our “kill”. Especially if we are hunting for food. Kinda pointless to hunt squirrels with a 50bmg if you want to have roasted squirrel for dinner!
Caliber/cartridge should be associated with what you wish to hunt and it’s purpose. If I want to eat squirrel, almost anything over a 22lr or 22mag would be over kill. If your killing them as a pest, it won’t matter if use a 50bmg, other than it’s expensive, and collateral damage could make it dangerous. Even any version of the 30 caliber range would be overkill, as well as even a 223. Including the possibility of collateral damage.
You are also correct though in many pointless forum discussions on comparing caliber uses. Lol
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Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
We are human. (Mostly)
We need small and arbitrary things to dicuss, consider, remember, try out, wear out, love and hate.
It helps keep us from becoming bored stiff from the mundane.
Besides, it is good entertainment for those of us who use the venerable aught six, as we smile knowingly and shake our heads...
We need small and arbitrary things to dicuss, consider, remember, try out, wear out, love and hate.
It helps keep us from becoming bored stiff from the mundane.
Besides, it is good entertainment for those of us who use the venerable aught six, as we smile knowingly and shake our heads...
New and (ever so) slightly improved vs older and still doing what they’ve always done.
At normal hunting ranges, the differences are minuscule at best. At long range, whether that be hunting or long range shooting, the differences do show up. But we’re talking LONG range.
At normal hunting ranges, the differences are minuscule at best. At long range, whether that be hunting or long range shooting, the differences do show up. But we’re talking LONG range.
So it's more of poor choice of twist rate limiting bullet weight than the frontal diameter of the bullet?
I had one of those. Tried to love it but couldn't. It took more powder to get the same velocity as a 260. I'd like to try the 9.3x62, but I have a 35 Whelen and nothing to shoot with it.Or 6.5x55
I was talking more about bore diameter than actual cartridges.
For arguments sake, let's say each cartridge pushes the heaviest bullet at 2900 fps.
Would this make it a more incremental change? Or would we still have the huge jumps in what's good and what's only slightly better?
Varminterror
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Doesn’t even have to be poor twist rate. A short action case isn’t going to push a 250grn bullet very fast. Even most standard bolt face long action cases won’t. A 300 grain bullet? Even slower. There’s no replacement for displacement.
Poor twist rate can be remedied by a custom barrel. Insufficient case capacity cannot be. This is why we hear guys say a 338-06 doesn’t “do anything” a .30-06 can’t do, or a 338wm doesn’t do anything a 300win mag can’t - but then we see a .338wm doing more than a .30-06, and a .375 H&H doing more than a .338wm. For most cartridges which aren’t terribly overbore, adding bullet diameter without adding bullet weight doesn’t add killing power, and typically, nor does adding bullet weight without adding case capacity. Maybe consider it this way - given a certain case capacity, say a .308win case, going down or up in bullet diameter too far into overbore or UNDERbore capacity ratios will limit your efficacy. In this example, a .243win, even in a fast twist barrel, isn’t really more than a whitetail rifle, whereas a .308win steps up a rung in game weight capability, however, the .358win really doesn’t. The .243win is overbore, the 308win less so, and the .358win relatively underbore.
Looking at it that way makes sense.
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