38 Special Rifle Loads

Mr_Flintstone · Mar 23, 2020

I found this some time back... possibly here. Anyway, I downloaded the image because I thought it was interesting at the time. I didn’t realize at the time how significant these loads were. The load data seems to far exceed that of handgun data; getting close to 38-44 or light .357 magnums. I wouldn’t trust these at all in a 38 special handgun, but out of a .357 magnum rifle, I’m intrigued. I know that in normal times, to get this performance I would use .357 magnum cases, but I’m running low on .357 cases, and all the local gun stores are closed because the Coronavirus, and many online sources for brass are drying up. I’m thinking of loading a few of the 158s and trying them out. What do you guys think? Is this a bad idea?

edwardware · Mar 23, 2020

Well, storing sticks of dynamite in your cigar box is fine. . . unless you forget and make an ash of yourself.

I do not think I would make a load that would fit in, and damage, a gun I owned. I can't own a non-Ruger 45 Colt for that reason.

Unless you can set COAL so they won't chamber in a revolver, I would not.

Random 8 · Mar 23, 2020

Wow, those are a little warm. Should still be below .357 max pressures though. As usual, work up and at your own risk and all that jazz.

mcb · Mar 23, 2020

Yeah those loads don't look like they would be in SAAMI spec for 38 Special or even 38 Special +P specs. What year was that published?

AJC1 · Mar 23, 2020

Everything that you do in reloading is a personal choice of weighing the factors and the risk versus reward. From a functional only standpoint one of the factors for reloading this type of cartridge Maybe getting a good crimp in the right place on the bullet and neck tension for a good burn depending on what type of powder you're using

Mr_Flintstone · Mar 23, 2020

mcb said:
Yeah those loads don't look like they would be in SAAMI spec for 38 Special or even 38 Special +P specs. What year was that published?

I don’t know. Someone had posted it on a gun forum a few years ago, and I saved the image. It’s from a Hornady book, and I have #3 and #4, and they aren’t in those; so I’m gonna say it’s from #1 or #2.

mdi · Mar 23, 2020

I just checked my Lyman 49th and the starting loads in the pic for Unique and 2400 are a hair over max for 38 Special handgun loads. The data for Unique and 2400 data in the pic is a hair lower than 357 magnum handgun data. There was not any powderd from the pic listed in the Lyman 357 rifle data, so no comparison there. The rifle in question is designed for 357 Magnum, so I believe the loads in the pic would be safe. Starting loads and working up if necessary of course.

In 45-50 years of shooting and 35+ years of reloading I have never "accidentally" mixed up any ammo (I have experimented with "smokin' hot" 38 Special for use in my 357 handgun which were probably dangerous in my 38 snubby). I guess I' "anal" about what I do with my guns and nobody has ever fired any of my handloads in their guns and I can't remember if anyone ever shot one of my guns since I bought them...

buck460XVR · Mar 23, 2020

mdi said:
The rifle in question is designed for 357 Magnum, so I believe the loads in the pic would be safe. Starting loads and working up if necessary of course.

I think that is the caveat here. If you look at the last line in the left page pictured, you see they tell you if you load for both the rifle and a .38 pistol to make sure you segregate the ammo.

Mr_Flintstone · Mar 23, 2020

I started a workup today, but I only made it to 7.1 grains. I used just some old mixed .38 special (non +p) cases, 158 gr Sierra Flat Point bullets, and CCI small pistol primers with Unique powder. In my 20” Henry, I started with 6.0 gr Unique, and they looked like any other .38 special fired case. When I got to about 7 grains, the primers were starting to flatten, which is something I’ve never seen in .38 Special (even with +P). The primers still had a little to go before they were completely flat, but that was the point that I felt comfortable going to. According to the chart, that would put the load at about 1350 FPS. I think I would feel more comfortable loading a max IMR 4227 .38 Special +P load at about 1100-1200 FPS.

Soonerpesek · Mar 23, 2020

Read the first paragraph on the left page, that should clear this up for you.

film495 · Mar 23, 2020

mark them good and don't drop them into a handgun. I've seen people tag cartridges with a sharpie, a nice red X, on the back of the cartridge across the primer, is what I'd do. then if something ever got mixed up - you've got a visual cue as a last resort.

Mr_Flintstone · Mar 24, 2020

Just for kicks I opened my Lyman 48th, and compared to .357 Magnum.

Unique Powder
125 gr jacketed
357 Magnum........... 7.0-9.7 gr
These .38 Special... 6.6-8.8 gr

158 gr jacketed
357 Magnum........... 6.4-8.3 gr
These .38 Special... 6.0-8.2 gr

So, figuring in the reduced case capacity, these are essentially .37 Magnum rounds in .38 Special cases. I think that even though this has been done and documented, it probably isn’t a good idea for me to persue.

mdi · Mar 24, 2020

buck460XVR said:
I think that is the caveat here. If you look at the last line in the left page pictured, you see they tell you if you load for both the rifle and a .38 pistol to make sure you segregate the ammo.

"In 45-50 years of shooting and 35+ years of reloading I have never "accidentally" mixed up any ammo (I have experimented with "smokin' hot" 38 Special for use in my 357 handgun which were probably dangerous in my 38 snubby). I guess I' "anal" about what I do with my guns and nobody has ever fired any of my handloads in their guns and I can't remember if anyone ever shot one of my guns since I bought them..." The rest of my post.

AJC1 · Mar 24, 2020

mdi said:
"In 45-50 years of shooting and 35+ years of reloading I have never "accidentally" mixed up any ammo (I have experimented with "smokin' hot" 38 Special for use in my 357 handgun which were probably dangerous in my 38 snubby). I guess I' "anal" about what I do with my guns and nobody has ever fired any of my handloads in their guns and I can't remember if anyone ever shot one of my guns since I bought them..." The rest of my post.

Everyone's situation is a little bit different I am every bit as anal as anyone you ever met about reloading but my kid also shoots my reloads

mdi · Mar 25, 2020

If (and that's a big if) someone else were to use any of my handloads, I would figger they could read. I label every batch with pertinent info including whether or not the load is "hot" and/or for a specific gun. Nearing the "age of enlightenment" (70) I take precautions in case my well used and old brain misses something. I often highlight loads (pink) on my labels and/or color a star (red) on the label for some specific reason which will key the old gray matter to look more closely.

38 Special Rifle Loads

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