100 Carrying Handguns On Hips At Norfolk City Council

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"We made a mistake," Councilman Barclay C. Winn said. "It was unintentional."
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I'm surprised they even admitted that. They're trying hard to get out of this one.

"Apparently you have some officers who don't understand the law," said the president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Philip Van Cleave of Midlothian.
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That's pretty much the case everywhere, and I don't necessarily blame them. There are too many laws and technicalities on the books no matter where you live.
 
I'm a fairly tolerant fellow, fletcher, but any law enforcement officer who doesn't know every law he or she attempts to enforce deserves as much blame as a physician who hasn't learned the doctoring craft--and is just as dangerous. A law enforcement officer who doesn't know the law can't enforce it. All he can do is impose her arbitrary will on other people.
 
"We made a mistake," Councilman Barclay C. Winn said. "It was unintentional."

I'm surprised they even admitted that. They're trying hard to get out of this one.
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They're just making it worse by lying. They knew what they were doing. They're going to pay for it big time too.


"Apparently you have some officers who don't understand the law," said the president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Philip Van Cleave of Midlothian.
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That's pretty much the case everywhere, and I don't necessarily blame them. There are too many laws and technicalities on the books no matter where you live.
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I blame them. EVERYBODY is responsible for knowing the law. Remember, "Ignorance of the law is no defense to prosecution"? Were we to append to that, "...except for the police", that would destroy the equal protection clause... and common sense once and for all. Do you believe that there are too many laws and technicalities on the books for non-police to know? If so, do you believe that that should be a defense to prosecution?
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"We made a mistake,"
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I didn't know Vick was on the city council.
There is no excuse other than arrogant people trying to enforce their will over the law..
 
Look, I'm not defending their behavior. If they didn't know the law, there's no excuse for trying to enforce it. My statement was with respect to officers trying to enforce things they don't even know about because of their opinions, or expecting things to be enforced when nobody knows the law.

We all know this situation was not about enforcing the law. Charging him with something was completely secondary to those officers flaunting their egos.
 
City Attorney Bernard A. Pishko said city officials were unaware of a state law prohibiting localities from banning guns.
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Funny , we the people can't use the "ignorance of the law ' excuse , so what gives them the right to ? Matter of fact , they should know the laws better than the average citizen .
 
Kim Barton, who would not say where she lives, tried to speak but was told by Mayor Paul Fraim that she couldn't because she had not signed up to speak.

"I want to hear what she has to say," Vann said.

Fraim replied, "I'm running this meeting " and informed Vann his time to speak had expired.
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So you have to register to speak your mind now?

Apparently they like to trample on first amendment rights as well. At least they're consistent.

The mayor comes across as childish. I hope the voters are taking note of this and act appropriately come election time.
 
From Terrill's post:

Quote:
"We made a mistake,"

I didn't know Vick was on the city council.
There is no excuse other than arrogant people trying to enforce their will over the law..

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Good one Terrill. They'd probably find Jesus too if they didn't believe in government ensuring freedom "FROM" religion.
 
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"City Attorney Bernard A. Pishko said city officials were unaware of a state law prohibiting localities from banning guns."

I find this absolutely impossible. Here's a city attorney who needs to be fired for incompetence or disbarred for public lying. It's part of his job to see what new laws are passed and how they affect the city and it's laws and ordinances.
 
Organizations hire administrators and counselors to advise them of laws and best practice. Someone dropped the ball.
 
If a police officer tries to enforce a law that either doesn't exist, or conflicts with a state law, making the law in itself illegal, isn't that police officer committing a crime?

Funny, if he went to tackle the police officer (even though the police officer was enforcing an illegal law, sort of making this a case of battery), things would have been different. This fellow would have been probably beaten, or because of new and improved technology, seasoned or been lit up like a christmas tree.

I don't say slap on the wrist, I don't say charge them (the dept. really) ONLY with tort law. I say lock them (the actual officer(s)) up. I'm sick and tired of police corruption (I'm not talking about your usual racism stuff, I'm talking about unaware of open carry laws. The police NEED TO LEARN THE LAW IF THEY ENFORCE IT). Not only the officer that made the arrest, but any that helped, and said nothing.

Of course, I know that the police officer must have caught some crap for this, from his colleagues and his superiors. I wouldn't be surprised, if he got a new nickname. Of course, he probably already has one, and it would take quite a bit to change it.

By the way, I can legally carry in my home state of Michigan (not in a car though), but I wouldn't dare try it... unless I could use it earn myself quite a bit of money through tort law. And even such, I'm sure any firearm I carried would be very badly scuffed. I'm just not willing to do that.
 
The city attorney's statement is very carefully worded. Notice he doesn't say that the police officer in question, or the city attorney, didn't know the law was invalid. He just says "city officials." Well, that may be true. Maybe some members of the city council or whatever didn't know, but it is a deceptive statement even if true.
 
Request Please

This news is surely to cause folks to do a Internet Search, by both Pro-gun and Anti-Gun Folks.

THR you can bet will be one of many Search returns.

THR members conducted themselves very well with the recent new member Dr. McDowell, and the thread in regard to his upcoming book, and I ask we continue to be civil and polite with this thread.

City Council is accountable for themselves.
Virginia Citizens Defense League, are to be commended for their actions.

Turn up the heat if you want, just be civil and polite and again show those against us, we do not lower ourselves to their level.
 
NORFOLK

More than 100 gun-rights advocates, most carrying handguns on their hips and wearing buttons saying "Guns Save Lives," came to the City Council on Tuesday night to protest what they called harassment of law-abiding gun owners by city officials.

The protest was called by the Virginia Citizens Defense League, a gun-rights group, after Chet Szymecki of Yorktown was arrested in June at Harborfest for carrying a gun.

Szymecki was arrested for violating a city ordinance banning guns at Harborfest - an ordinance that officials now acknowledge violates state law. City Attorney Bernard A. Pishko said city officials were unaware of a state law prohibiting localities from banning guns.

Carrying a weapon openly is legal in Virginia, even at a large gathering such as Harborfest. Once city officials realized their error, the charges against Szymecki were dropped.

"We made a mistake," Councilman Barclay C. Winn said. "It was unintentional."
Most who came to protest didn't appear to believe it was an innocent mistake.

"You know it was illegal," said Dave Vann, who drove from Falls Church to speak. "You arrested someone, and now it's going to cost you dearly."

Szymecki, a Navy veteran, said he was manhandled and hurt and that his wife, Deborah, his three children and two other children who accompanied them were traumatized. He said he has hired Norfolk attorney Stephen Merrill.

An emotional Deborah Szymecki told the council that after several police officers were done handcuffing her husband, she was left without money or the keys to the family car.

Others rose to describe incidents in which they said they were questioned and often handcuffed by police for simply carrying a firearm openly.

"Apparently you have some officers who don't understand the law," said the president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Philip Van Cleave of Midlothian.

The meeting drew more rowdy as it continued, with speakers receiving thunderous applause and some expressing disgust for the council. Some used unsavory terms to describe the police.

Councilman Paul R. Riddick left the meeting as gun-rights advocates began speaking, he said, in protest of their protest.

Kim Barton, who would not say where she lives, tried to speak but was told by Mayor Paul Fraim that she couldn't because she had not signed up to speak.

"I want to hear what she has to say," Vann said.

Fraim replied, "I'm running this meeting " and informed Vann his time to speak had expired.
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:rolleyes:
 
One other note: a local cable station video tapes the council meetings, right up to the point where the citizens start to speak, and then they stop. Nice!:mad:
 
So the law is too complicated and difficult for the people that are paid to know it as thier profession, but every citizen is expected to follow it perfectly? Then those people employed to know it as a profession use ignorance of it as an excuse?
A bit of a double standard there.
 
So the law is too complicated and difficult for the people that are paid to know it as thier profession, but every citizen is expected to follow it perfectly? Then those people employed to know it as a profession use ignorance of it as an excuse?
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Makes perfect sense doesn't it???:rolleyes:
 
The police officers certainly know that the state of Virginia preempted all local gun laws years ago, it is very common knowledge. They have to abide by those same state level rules when they carry concealed or openly when they are off duty in Virginia. So when they arrested that poor man and humiliated that family they knew they were in the wrong.

The fact that they carried through with their illegal threat is the most disturbing thing to me, they knew for a fact they would never be held accountable for their actions. They were right, they never will be.
 
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