Mountain Lion Defense

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Attacks in the US are increasing exponentially though.

No they are not.
Since (and including 2001) through August 2006, there were about 22 report injury attacks on people. http://users.frii.com/mytymyk/lions/attacks3.htm

The average isn't really different from the previous decade (note that you have to count the injury to humans v. pets v. non-injury accounts yourself)
http://users.frii.com/mytymyk/lions/attacks2.htm

As with bear attacks, when you read the accounts you will find that several of them are really more about stupid people than vicious animals.

Of course...
Over 300 people have been killed by domestic dogs in the U.S. between 1979 and the late 1990s (Humane Society of the U.S., reported in Tracking and the Art of Seeing, Paul Rezendes, second edition, 1999, p. 194). This means that your family dog or your neighbor's dog is ten times more likely to kill you than a mountain lion and hundreds of time more likely than a coyote attacks.
http://tchester.org/sgm/lists/dog_attacks.html

Just to provide a bit of perspective.
 
Thanks Tuckerdog1- When I saw that pic I thought I stood at a similar point on lake Travis...no big cats though.
 
I don't care how frequent ML attacks are, I don't want my kids to be the ONE attack that year. How many of you are actually attacked by people? How many of you carry 'just in case'?
 
I don't care how frequent ML attacks are, I don't want my kids to be the ONE attack that year. How many of you are actually attacked by people? How many of you carry 'just in case'?

Nothing wrong with being prepared, it's just good to keep things in perspective.

For what it's worth, CDC reports 25 deaths by dogbites and 79 by "other bites and stings" in 2001.

2001 probably had 2 or less deaths by cougar, so the other 104 people got killed by something else. Presumably insect bites, snakebites or small rabid mammals. Any bear or alligator deaths that year?


http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5307a1.htm


Not to take a cheap shot at the OP, but overall any "one XYZ death is too much" sets up a weird situation (logical fallacy?) Nobody is arguing that it's peachy keen to lose a person a year to cougars (especially if you happen to be that person), but it doesn't necessarily justify killing every cougar in the country.

This whole "if it saves on life" mentality is just the kind of junk science the antis like to push: "Here's lovely little toddler Suzy, killed in a drive-by. Wouldn't you give up all your terrible guns if it could bring her back? You wouldn't? You monster!"
 
These Pics came from a friend of mine who is an avid hunter and outdoorsman as we where talking about the possibility of MLs In Pa. He claims to have heard a noise on his backporch one night and this is what he saw. This is in a small town " Snowshoe pa. " Near central part of the state.
 

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That attack info (spy's link) IMO looks like a Eco-liberal wrote it as hunters are excluded from the tally and it delves into "issues" mountain lions are about as hard core as they come I'd take on a bear over a lion, that said pepper spray, but I would probably carry anyway a rural park a rural gun-owning jury= law fixes.
 
The lion on the back porch photos

I think that is one cat that needs to be dealt with. Seeing one out in the wild is one thing, but that one is clearly not afraid of people. If it's coming around and being so aggressive as to almost pose for a photo that's one cat I would constantly be on the look out for because I'm pretty sure it believes that you are clearly lower on the food chain than it is.
 
That attack info (spy's link) IMO looks like a Eco-liberal wrote it as hunters are excluded from the tally and it delves into "issues"

People need to have perspective on who is at risk too.
Just like a person has a low risk of being struck by lighting it is not because being struck by lightning during a lightning storm while being one of the highests points in an area is rare, is it because most people are indoors during lightning storms because they tend to be accompanied by rain.
Just like people cite you are more likely to die from ___ than get attacked by a shark that is using millions of people that never get out into the open water to arrive at a low per capita. If you only divided the number of surfers and divers in say high risk areas like the central and northern coast of CA by the number of attacks the per capita statistics would be much higher. They however divide either the entire population of the United States, or every person that visits a beach or wades in shallow water to arrive at the "don't worry" statistics.

Well the same goes for bear and mountain lions. The actual percent of the population that is out in thier habitat on a regular basis is limited.

So if you walk around outside in flat open areas during lightning storms, surf on beaches where Great Whites ambush marine mammals from below, or spend a lot of time outdoors in very wild places that bears and mountain lions hunt in, your actual risk is much higher than is proposed by people with an agenda in protecting such creatures (which I do believe are important.) So keep it in perspective. The risk is low, but it does more than exist if you are an individual that spends a lot of time in the wilderness.

As with bear attacks, when you read the accounts you will find that several of them are really more about stupid people than vicious animals.
I agree with most animals, a large cat however is very different.
A large cat is a killing machine pure and simple. They are solitary (except African lions) animals who live for the hunt and kill. Pleasure for a cat involves toying with prey. A good dream to a cat likely includes pouncing on an animal. They are stealthy, cunning, and want to hunt. That is thier sole purpose and pleasure in life (besides the occasional mate.) They don't forage for fruit and nuts like a bear, spend much time interacting with others of thier species, or establish and live in a social pecking order like wolves. They exist to kill in solitary fashion. Therefore it is thier prime design function, and what most of thier mind and skills and life is focused on.
Most are afraid of people and that limits the danger. However they are an ambush predator and as such are much more dangerous than say a bear because even a smart individual obeying all the rules can find one on thier back and themselves face first in the dirt before they ever know it is around.
 
I'll stick with my trusty 12 gauge thanks. You go ahead and bring pepper spray, you might be lucky and not find one that likes hot sauce on his dinner.

bear.jpg
 
I don't care how frequent ML attacks are, I don't want my kids to be the ONE attack that year. How many of you are actually attacked by people? How many of you carry 'just in case'?

Of course you don't want your kids or anyone else attacked, even if they are stupid enough to do something like throwing rocks at the critter, trying to feed it, or whatever.

The tactics mentioned on the sign to defend against mountain lion attacks have been shown to work. That is why they are suggested for use by folks who dont' have guns or in areas where guns are not allowed to be carried. Where folks get into trouble is that their first inclination when they realize they are being pursued by animals such as big cats is to take flight and that does nothing but embolden the cat to chase what it then perceives as fleeing prey.

The point is that people focus on some of the most obscure bad things and then worry about those things and then go condition white on threats that are more common and/or actually more dangerous because of the commonality. How many overly specific threads have we seen started that say something like "What gun for ________ defense?" Of you folks worried about the horrors of the few number of bear and mountain lion attacks and who have taught your family members everything about the behaviors of those two animals, how many of you have bothered to do the same for domestic dog attacks?

Coyotes attack kids about half as often as mountain lions attack people. What are you doing in prep for coyote attacks?

The focus on the really cool, sexy, devastating, powerful critters seems to come at the expense of virtually ignoring the threats that do more harm and kill more people most of the time.
 
The focus on the really cool, sexy, devastating, powerful critters seems to come at the expense of virtually ignoring the threats that do more harm and kill more people most of the time.

Well said! There was a guy a few months back focusing on "what gun for cougar" in a state where cougars sighting are slightly above unicorn sightings but significantly under UFO sightings. If he spent the rest of his life wandering the woods with a side of beef strapped to his back, exposure, lightning or meth cookers would get him a dozen times before a cat.


Regarding real threats: since a THR member posted the stats a few years back, I've decided that once I have kids there will never be a bucket of water left unattended in my house. I have half a mind to ask parents before I let my kid play at their place "do you keep buckets in your house? Are they properly stored when not in use?"


My annoyance at the statistical issues involved in these threads is topped only by my annoyance at "Wow, Gun Model Xs were only $50 in 1927! What a screaming deal!" threads. For comparison, $50 at 7% interest for 80 years is over $11,000, which most 1927 guns are not.
 
The focus on the really cool, sexy, devastating, powerful critters seems to come at the expense of virtually ignoring the threats that do more harm and kill more people most of the time.

Well said.

I can't imagine why people would want to have a natural world without teeth. But, I understand better when I visit national parks.

Of course, I don't want to have any kids in my family eaten by Cougars either. But, I don't take them out into the woods and I stress to them how real animals aren't cuddly little disney characters who zing each other and always have a cute song handy.
And, I accept that when I'm outdoors something can eat me.
BTW, I'm an avid backpacker, bowhunter, and hiker. I've seen and heard Cougars in the wild. Seldom have I had a handgun on me, nor have numerous friends who backpack.
Somehow I've never been attacked.
I have, however, been mugged, had my home broken into, been held at gunpoint, been attacked by a dog on the trail, and been both shot with a shotgun and stabbed with a folding pocket knife.
A cougar was never involved in any of these. Except that I was driving a 1970 Mercury Cougar at the time some of those happened.
 
And they sound so creepy-kinda like a little girl screaming.

Yeah, that was actually me. I thought I saw a couger. :evil:



When I'm hiking in big cat territory, I just carry a vacuum cleaner. :D



On a serious note...

...how many of you have bothered to do the same for domestic dog attacks?

Coyotes attack kids about half as often as mountain lions attack people. What are you doing in prep for coyote attacks?

Um... Same thing I do for bears and mountain lions? Know the risks, be prepared?

Just because the biggies are more entertaining to think about, plan for and discuss /= not having thought about the more mundane threats as well. It's a false dichotomy.
 
Somewhat off topic...

I saw an ad about the growing coyote problem here in middle Tennessee. Apparently a coyote killed a small breed dog in the backyard, and the owner died of a fear-related heart attack as it happened. They were quick to point out that hunting coyotes IS legal here. Lock and load, boys, coyote stew for supper.
 
I live in the boonies of southwestern Oregon, up in the coastal mountains. We have Cougar and Bear and the local rule is SSS, See, Shoot, Shutup. We do not go out into the woods without dogs and guns. You see the problem is one of training. Young cougar have to learn to fear humans. They do this by being shot and killed by humans. Simple matter of education.
 
Next time i go out in the woods, I'll prepare for all sorts of animal attacks. I'll bring a 45-70 for bears, a .223 for coyotes, a .22 revolver with snakeshot for snakes, a 30-30 lever rifle for deer attacks, a .40 for cougar, a 9mm for humans, a .17 for angry woodchucks, and a shotgun for hitchcock-style bird attacks.

Or maybe I'll just bring a big knife and a stick, and watch out for potential trouble before it comes to that.
 
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