THE Alaskan bear defense rifle

Wouldn't a 12 ga with slugs work just as well.......?

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Yup. All the ones I've whacked were pretty much DRT with Brenneke slugs.

Two this year were taken with Foster slugs. Both at close range. Both never took more than a couple of steps before falling over. One slug was recovered the other a pass through.

For a bolt action rifle, I'd choose a 375 H&H magnum, probably a Browning. I'd have a 12 gauge with slugs to back that up.

I don't trust these exposed fiber optic sights in the field. It always seems like a good smack on rocks will shatter them.

Shotguns offer good firepower, but the sights generally are terrible, there are very few models that are weather resistant (nickle plated, etc.), and they're heavy and bulky.

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That has not been my experience. I've taken old 'bergs through rivers, literally in the river, dropped them in mud and filled the actions with sand and they still work. Their greatest advantage may be their cheapness. Unlike a dandied up 95 from Wild West, the shooter won't have any hesitation exposing the Mossberg to rough conditions. And as far as sights, you just get the slug barrel with rifle sights. I also haven't found them to be heavy or bulky. Pound for pound they're lighter than a rifle because they have a far lighter barrel.

Having carried all manner of long and short guns for bear protection, the big advantage of the '95 is its FLATNESS. Shotguns are quite round in profile, and are less easy to stow for that reason. Leverguns are very flat, and can be kept in a backpack scabbard more easily. But as to whether that's enough of an advantage to justify the enormous price difference, I don't know.

If I was lost in the woods I'd probably be happy with a .22 and a Bible. But i I was expecting to come across an evil, nasty bear, a guide gun in .45-70 would suit me fine. I still might need a change of pants.
Have you seen the Ruger Alaskan?

I like my Marlin 1895GS as an all around rifle and as a bear defense rifle. If you surf Randy's site, I think you will find his ammo in a Marlin Guide Gun is hard to beat:

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/

Even out-penetrates the .458 Win Mag.

Bear Guns: Some Facts and Musings

I just saw THE ultimate practical bear defense gun:

It's a new model Marlin in 45/70. It's stainless, has a straight stock in grey laminate, and I think the barrel is shorter than the previous "guide gun".

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Shooters,

I am thinking about getting a larger capable rifle for elk and my dream of an Alaska hunt. This thread caught my eye. My cousin was treed by a grizzly and he now carries bear spray and a 44 Rem Mag pistol when he fly fishes in NW Montana. So we have talked about bear guns. The last thing one wants is to end up as dinner for a hungry grizzly!

I did a little analysis using Federals excellent free ballistic calculator (See: http://www.federalpremium.com/default.asp?br=1.

I looked at the ammunition that generated the highest energy at muzzle and 50 meters. I assume that most man-bear life and death shootouts are in pretty close range. I looked at Popular Pistol, 12 Ga Shotgun, a few rifles that you would find hunters carrying. I included the 45-70 because I own one and it is a nostalgia weapon coming back into favor.

I am attaching the chart that shows the results. The 45-70 generates more twice the energy of the 44 Rem Mag (both with a 300 gr round). So if you are going to carry one weapon for bear defense the 45-70 rifle makes sense if you want a rifle instead of a pistol. But if you are hunting and want to be able to take down a bear, my Browning 30-06 generates 41% more enegy than the 45-70. I will not be carrying a shotgun if I am hunting in Montana or Alaska. But it is interesting to see that the best shotgun ammo only generates 12% more energy than the old 45-70.

In my case I think the 338 Win Mag makes a lot of sense as the main purpose is to be able to generate knock down energy on a flat trajectory out to 300 yards. It does that and still offers 61% more energy at the muzzle than the 45-70.

There one other factor that comes to mind. As a kid growing up in Montana, I read with great interest a number of books about bear attacks. One of the things that sticks in my mind is that in a number of cases, hunters who were attacked shot and then got a jam or failure to feed a round in a bolt action rifle. Clearly a result of panic and not taking a full return on the bolt. With lever actions, the more excited you get does not interfere with the loading of the round. What ever you are carrying it would be a good idea to try a few rapid fire practices at short range to make sure you can make the bolt, pump, or lever work and hit the target.

Fnally, when if the bear makes it through three rounds of 338 Win Mag and six round from my 44 Mag, as he opens his jaws to bite off my head, I will spit in his mouth. Supposedly, human spittle is to bears as quiche is to men. So if all else fails, and you can muster some spit in this situation, spit in his mouth and then play dead. Cause chances are you will be!

Why take chances? Barret M107 should do the job

So if you are going to carry one weapon for bear defense the 45-70 rifle makes sense if you want a rifle instead of a pistol. But if you are hunting and want to be able to take down a bear, my Browning 30-06 generates 41% more enegy than the 45-70.

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Now run the numbers with one of Garrett's 540gr +P Hammerhead loads.

For those who have an issue with the Marlin Safety (I can understand this in a defensive rifle), all you have to do to make it not be a problem is:
1. Get and "E" clip at a hardware store and stick it on the little "ring" that is exposed with the safety in the fire postion. No mods to the rifle and cheap.
2. Get one of the kits that are offered to completely replace the safety.
3. Take the stock off the rifle. Then put the safety in the fire position and tighten up the little allen screw that holds the spring loaded detent in for the safety until its tight enough that you have to very purposely put the safety on with all your might. (personal favorite).

BTW- how can you accuse Marlin of "stealing" the idea for a lever action 45-70 carbine? They have been making carbines in various calibers for over a hundred years so how could anyone think that them introducing their own carbine would be lawsuit worthy?

As far as a bear hunting rifle, I agree that the 338 winchester magnum is the way to go, if you can withstand its punishing 37 ft lbs of recoil energy, double the .308. When it comes to a defensive weapon against bear attacks, I'll take the 12 gauge with 3" magnum slugs, if anything will do the job, that is it.

From what I have read on the internet, most Alaskan guides will tell you that the 338 win mag is the most popular bear rifle in Alaska.

1. The two most popular cartridge amonst Alaskans are the 30-06 and the 338 Win mag.

2. The best Bear defense weapon is between your ears.

3. We debate this subject up here all the time.
The best tool (rifle, shotgun, etc) depends on :

A. where you are going,
B. how you are getting there
C. and your personal skill.

That is why God wants me to have lots of guns.

That is why God wants me to have lots of guns.

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I always knew it, but now I have confirmation.

Well we are coming up on SHOT season, and this thread has been resurrected.

Any more rumor on Marlin offering a Guide Gun with pistol grip stock or something new completely?

In my case I think the 338 Win Mag makes a lot of sense as the main purpose is to be able to generate knock down energy on a flat trajectory out to 300 yards. It does that and still offers 61% more energy at the muzzle than the 45-70.

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The .338 WM has become *the* standard Alaskan hunting cartridge from all I've seen. The classic Alaska rifle isn't a tricked out levergun (though those are cool) but a beaten up bolt action in .338. Often an old Ruger 77. I've even seen some covered with auto sealant. Basically they're not terribly valuable and nobody is going to cry if and when they bite the dust in the bush. But they deliver acceptable accuracy and the .338 WM gives you enough power for anything in the state *plus* giving you some extra yardage to play with if you're hunting in more open country or in the mountains.

Personally I prefer the .375 H&H among the magnums, but I'm in the minority.

The question of what to bring for bear *defense* if you're not hunting anything big is another matter. You no longer need to worry about shooting beyond 30 to 50 yards, so a slug gun becomes a much more viable option so long as you load it with hardcast magnums.

"The guide gun IS handy, but it's heavier than a shotgun, and is slower to operate.

Great hunting rifle though."


Excuse me? Slower to Operate? Explain how a Pump action is faster than a lever action.

My next rifle is gonna be a 1895 45/70... So I'm a little biased...


Chad

Could a 30-30 be used to stop bear? I'm guessing at close range it would be better than nothing.

Also, is the 12g slug really a bear stopper?

thanks

Could a 30-30 be used to stop bear? I'm guessing at close range it would be better than nothing.

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Yes, certainly. The .30-30 has considerably more power than all but the most potent magnum siderarms. And in the early days of smokeless powder it was considered a true bear rifle, believe it or not. One native guide up here dropped dozens of Kodiak and never used a rifle bigger than the .30-30! Of course, the last bear also got him. But who's to say that couldn't have happened with a bigger rifle anyway.

The bottom line though is you're likely better off with a more powerful magnum rifle or at least something throwing larger hardcast slugs with more momentum.

Winchester 1886 in 45/70 with 400-450 gr at 1800 fps would do the trick but with its curved steel butt plate it a killer on both ends and with a full length barrel (26 " I think) you have 9 or 10 rounds at your disposal

As far as the feed tube is concerned you can order a full length one and cut it to the length you need.

I think someone on the marlinowners.com has done this.

Chad

2. The best Bear defense weapon is between your ears.

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What the hell! You want me to hit him with my freaking nose!

Forget that, I'll take a 12 gauge.

Sheesh.

Grizz,
You must have been looking at the Davidson exclusive 1895 GS LTD, they are serial numbered GSLTD0000, they are sort of a XLR GS with fiber optic sights, 18.5" like a Guide Gun. I bought one to modify and didn't have the heart to do it, so now it sits in the safe unfired. Then I bought a 1895(no letter) 22" barrel which has the pistol grip stock. It is now 16 1/4", removed the checking and oil refinished, Wild West Trigger and bear proof ejector, DRC lever, XS sights and scope mount, leupold scout scope, limbsaver and other stainless parts. I use it for hogs but same principle as bear gun. A short 45-70.

Take a look at the Ruger 375 Alaskan.

Alaska is BIG

I don't think there is 1 good bear gun for Alaska. There are too many variables, if you overlaid the state onto the lower 48 and put the SE Panhandle on Florida then the last Aleutian Island would be in Seattle. You have Temperate Rain Forest on Kodiak and Arctic Coastal Plain on the north slope. How do you get to where you are going? If by plane then there are weight issues, if by boat you may have to jump out of the Zodiac in medium surf. That being said when I was beach combing or left town I would always take a radio, binoculars, & short barreled slug shotgun.

Ha-ha, I still remember the one time in Bristol Bay I didn't take the aforementioned and saw a huge pile of seaweed that I swore was a sleeping bear.

If you wanted something a little lighter and considerably more compact, you could try one of these:

http://www.impactguns.com/store/022188635003.html