Suggest quality AR lower please.

I read quite a bit about lowers before I bought a pair of Mega forged lowers from Rainer Arms and the machining and anodizing is excellent. Cost about $125 each plus transfer.

They also make billet matched upper/lower pairs and while I don't have one I have seen them and they look top notch.

BCM would be my pick, but a Colt I wouldn't say no to either.

Does DD sell lowers?

You did not mention caliber.

Pick a logo and price you like.

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Basically.

As long as it's 7075-T6 and properly machined, a lower is a lower is a lower.

Having said that, there are some 6061 and even cast lowers. 6061 units would be fine under most circumstances, but with good 7075 forged lowers under $50 these days, why bother?

As for polymer, well........it has it's place, but only for an ultralight build, IMO.

I would have to ask, what companies are making out of spec lowers and in what way are they out of spec? Of the several lowers I've had with names you would probably never recognize, none have been out of spec.

I would suggest you price lowers, decide on the one you would like to buy and then ask questions about it and the purveyor thereof on the forum.

Brownell's, if I remember correctly, has been advertising a stripped lower for about $50 for some time. If theirs was out of spec, I'm confident they'd make it right. Add about $75 to $100 for parts and you'd have a lower.

http://aeroprecisionusa.com/
Check those guys out, they make a good product.
You might want to also take a look at their 7.62 stuff, it is quickly becomming a favored flavor of mine.

Ditto on the Aero Precision---first rate!

While it's nice to state that lower priced lowers are often out of spec, the reality is that it's luck of the draw. Plenty who build their guns have experienced a Branded lower that had difficulty pinning to an upper.

Define out of spec - when the blueprints are marked =/- .030". Upper and lower fit is done at factories by selecting batches of parts that are complementary. They are entirely "in spec" if they meet the blueprint, but even a .005" variance one from another will result in a .010" misfit in then pin holes. And there you are, tapping the pin with a deadblow mallet the first 50 times you take it apart.

No amount of money is going to guarantee you a perfect fit when the allowable variation in two parts made 600 miles in either direction lands on you doorstep.

Another issue is the selection of parts themselves - some install more easily than others. Roll pins are a great example, the split heavy wall pins are a major pain to install, the rolled thin wall pins much less so. Both are an interference fit - it makes no difference if one pin hole is +/- .005" than the other. In or out of spec, the pins work.

The majority of receivers are forged in about a dozen plants, they and four dozen more machine them to the buyers specs. Colt doesn't forge, they just machine. Others forge and machine, and charge less, because volume makes up the difference in profit margin. Don't forget that the military specifications are there to protect the consumer, but also are a limit to how much quality does go into a part. Something can be "out of spec" and made BETTER.

Therefore it very much is "choose a rollmark and move on." A $200 lower or upper is not 4X better, more reliable, or hands down a guarantee of being superior. Colt and FN are not putting that kind of money into them, they are likely costing them under $30 each internally.

Why give someone else another $100? Most of that is profit mark up from the distributor and retailer. A $125 lower was purchased in bulk units of 100 far under $60 apiece, and the distributor has half of that in them. Profit markup at each level is typically 100%.

That is why Colt is on record bidding contracts for guns under $650, but retail you see MSRP of over $1000 and discounted to $900. They made their profit at $650 - which means they likely only have $300+ in the gun.

Price is not guarantee of quality, all you get is exclusivity of Brand - which is entirely a social factor, not a functional dynamic one.

Not to mention the billet lowers on the market which are usually higher in price - entirely out of spec (not forged) and usually a styled aesthetic - different fences out of spec, magwell shaped differently, additional gripping surfaces, ambidextrous controls with "off spec" machining to accept them, ad infinitum.

And of course the retro uppers and lowers which were spec at one time but now aren't. Not cheap there, either.

Price has nothing to do with quality, it's a marketing effort to maximize profit.

"They are entirely "in spec" if they meet the blueprint, but even a .005" variance one from another will result in a .010" misfit in then pin holes. And there you are, tapping the pin with a deadblow mallet the first 50 times you take it apart."


Which is what reamers are for... or a little valve grinding compound mixed with grease stuck onto a spare pin that's used to dress out the matching holes before it's replaced with the actual pin you'll use to shoot with.

My suggestion for a SBR done on a Form 1, for what it's worth, is to complete a 80% lower and then to have it engraved with your name or trust name, and then have it finished. That gives you a "correctly marked from the beginning" lower without extra markings, and without an area of engraving that needs refinishing anyhow. If you're not familiar with the processes it might seem difficult, but in reality it's not at all hard to do. Select a lower, send it out for engraving, bring it back and complete it using the normal drill press or milling maching method (find a friend with tools if you don't have them), and then look in your yellow pages for metal finishers for anodizing. It's an industrial process and is far more common than you might think, and cheap to have done.

^^ This all assumes you want to marry the lower to an upper "forever" as YOUR SBR, with the understanding that very few people will want to buy it at the end of your use.

The other option for a SBR is to use any lower you like (taking the good advice given above) and then to not bother marking it at all, but rather mark the bottom of the barrel of the upper you are going to use for it with your name and trust, using a vibro-engraver. To your lower question, this means that you don't need to worry about finishing the area of the lower disturbed by the engraving process.


Willie

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Prob like my seekins the best, just the allen set screw bolt release pin makes a build a snap. Im sure there are those that would gripe about it coming out but a little loctite would ease their fears i imagine. Plus the seekins just looks cooler

Whatever lower you get, make sure and assemble it first and mate it to the upper you'll use (w/o a short barrel in it) if you can, to make sure it is fine before you send in the SBR paperwork.

Who makes the best receiver? Which receiver is the best? Which receiver is the highest quality?

Of course the answer is that all of them are pretty much the same. The actual brand of receiver means little to nothing. When deciding on which receiver you should purchase you should take into consideration two factors. Price and manufacturer. Of course if price is not an object, get the receiver that has the logo or emblem that you want. I know that is superficial, but the best receiver really boils down to the one you like the best.

There are currently FOUR manufacturers that produce the majority of lower receivers for the AR market. MMS, CMT, LMT and LAR receive orders from many licensed manufacturers who obtain an ATF variance to have them cut and logo receivers on their behalf. JVP and Superior Arms cut for a couple of different companies as well, but currently I will only focus on the four main manufacturers differences.

Mega, Stag (CMT), LAR and Barrett (LMT):



Not all inclusive, and a few brands have had more than one manufacturer cut their receivers. Many companies receive CMT and LMT cuts in the white and finish them themselves. I have not seen a LAR or MMS cut that was finished by a third party company.

LMT = LMT, Lauer(old), DS Arms, PWA, Eagle, Knights Armament, Barrett, Bushmaster (?)
CMT = Stag, RRA, High Standard, Noveske (old), Century (current), Global Tactical, CLE, S&W, MGI (1st batch), Wilson Tactical, (some?) Colt, Ratworx
LAR = Grizzly, Bushmaster (L Prefix), Ameetech, (?)DPMS, CMMG, Double Star, Fulton, Spike's Tactical, Noveske (new)
MMS = Mega, Gunsmoke, Dalphon, POF (forged), Alexander Arms, Stinger, Spike's Tactical(old)
JVP = Double Star, LRB
Olympic = Olypmic, SGW, Tromix, Palmetto, Dalphon, Frankford, (old) Century
Superior = Superior Arms, Lauer (current)
Grenadier Precision
Sabre Defence (?)

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Taken from AR15.com. To finish reading the article, which I recommend, click here

It doesnt matter who makes it. it merely matters that its aluminium. ideally forged. and properly heat treated and anodized.

Go to ar15.com forum archives and look at the like/dislike with stag arms and dpms. with these companies it a cycle of like and hate. but the irony is that even when they are hated by "true believers" of "top tier companies". dpms and stag arms made lots of components for those top tier companies.

Upper and lower fit is done at factories by selecting batches of parts that are complementary

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Doesn't match my experience. I've put together a lot of "no name" lowers for use as an SBR as defacing it with my engraving as "manufacturer" doesn't make a lot of sense to spend extra on a brand name.

I've found complete interchange among my uppers (both "no name" and brand name) with only two minor exceptions -- my QC10 Glock mag lower is a very tight fit on my pair of 9mm uppers, but needing to tap in the rear pin with a rubber mallet is hardly a showstopper, although less than optimal, and my YHM lower is a rather sloppy fit with most uppers, although the fix is easy too, a rubber plug that pinches between the upper and the lower, its a common enough issue you can buy them ready made for ~$2.

It doesnt matter who makes it. it merely matters that its aluminium. ideally forged. and properly heat treated and anodized.

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Considering the questions you've asked just in the last two weeks, I don't think you're quite there as far as being qualified to offer advise on AR components.

Case in point, there are dozens upon dozens of aluminum alloys, from 1000 series extrusions that practically bend if you look at them wrong to 2219 and 7075 with T6 or T7 tempers that exceed the strength of some steels.

The military specification is 7075-T6, and that is the strongest of the common alloys. Basically all forged and most billet lowers are 7075-T6.

A few manufacturers have offered billet 6061-T6/T651/T6511 lowers, which should be fine, although not quite as strong as 7075.

A couple of makers have claimed 7075-T7, and folks who didn't know better are of the mind that "well, if T-6 is good, T-7 is better!", which is simply untrue, as T7 temper is overaged and actually leaves the alloy weaker than T6 to attain certain other properties, namely resistance to stress corrosion cracking.

Likewise, just because the alloy series number is higher does not indicate a stronger material. 2XXX series is much stronger than 3XXX or 5XXX.

I've even seen advertisements for lowers made of alloys for which the alleged temper does not apply.

In short, I'm simply suggesting that you take a little more time to better understand the AR, aluminum alloys, tempers and what that all means before saying things like that.

Alloys:

http://keytometals.com/page.aspx?ID=AluminumGrades&LN=EN

Tempers:

http://www.engineersedge.com/aluminum_tempers.htm

As long as it's 7075-T6 and properly machined, a lower is a lower is a lower.

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This. I have had Olympic's, Spikes, Anderson, PSA, RRA, Adams, S&W's lowers and if you put tape over the logo I couldn't tell a single difference.

As someone already said, just because it has a PSA, DD, Bubba gun Co, logo on it does NOt mean they made it.

Stick to a name brand and you will be fine.

My Two AR SBR's are RRA lower (because it was my only AR at the time and had been around and I trusted it) and CMMG, it was at the time to noly 9mm dedicated lower I could get.

Determine a price range, pick a logo you like. Besides, assuming you are going to engrave the lower, once you engrave your name / trust's name on it the value is going to become no more or less worth its weight in scrap metal.

I buy quality sights, quality optics, barrels, trigger kits. I don't care about trendy named handguards or lowers, etc.

My buddy has the fancy super duper AR with Noveske and DD parts, its probably $3000ish in total. I have a base line RRA with a $200 trigger upgrade, anti walk pins (because they walked out in a class), magpul furniture and a $50 no name quad rail and will run circles around him.

Spend the money on ammo and training id you don't already have it rather then a logo, thats my opinion!

The experience of a builder buying lowers one at a time isn't the same as a factory assembling hundreds.

The incoming parts are taken off the dock and sent to Inspection, who make sure they are in spec - and in doing that measure to see where the critical dimensions fall in that batch for further assembly.

AGP does this with the incoming platters so the CNC machining is set to the center of the forging, rather than offset based on whichever side goes into the mill. Platters that are thinner one batch to another need to have the centers determined and then machining can take place.

Pin hole centers one batch to the next are the same kind of issue - why create a problem for final assembly and then dump it on Customer Service by ignoring it? You measure the distance from the center of the pin holes and then select the complementary batch that fits.

Trying to make a 1,000 short uppers fit 1,000 long lowers is just shooting yourself in the foot. I would expect someone to have their continued employment be jeopardized.

You and I can ream the pin holes, with just one or two in hand we have no choice. A factory, no, the extra labor is expensive.

Anybody shotgun their new AR and find the anodizing gone from their pin holes from a reamer? Not happening, another CS issue.

You match the uppers and lowers so they fit right the first time and earn your reputation as a "quality" maker who does things right, not as one of those shops who builds a pile of parts and whittles on them when they don't fit.

It's sad, most Americans don't serve in the Armed Forces, nor do they work in a factory making parts. We've lost any idea of what it's like to be in uniform or make things in a highly coordinated production facility where tight quality control has a very serious purpose. Let's not forget that making bad parts and hand fitting them was the reason that Winchester was going out of business from high labor costs up to 1964.

They weren't examples of the gunbuilders art, they were simply getting by filing out of spec parts down so they could get something off the shipping dock.

The fix was to make them in spec and batch them to fit right the first time.

My feeling is that a lower is a lower although I'd personally avoid the polymer ones. Billets are nice looking, especially if you can go with a matched upper, but they're costly