10/22 vs AR-22 Accuracy?
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mcb
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The quality of the barrel and ammo used it going to dominate the potential accuracy more than the particular action in this case. They are both blow back semi-autos.
Varminterror
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It’s far, far easier to make a 10/22 more “shootable” than an AR-22.
MarshallDodge
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Agreed, especially if you look at what Kidd has done with a 10/22.
PistoleroWadcutterGANG
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When I had my Nordic Comp. RB22 and my Bergara BXR running together. I can say with confidence the Nordic shot every bit as accurate; BUT the Nordic seemed to get too the dirty time out and clean cycle a lot faster. A sample size of one is meaningless though. One reason the Nordic ran so well is Black Dog Mags. For AR22's nothing else even comes close in reliability.
Varminterror
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Side by side, out of the box, an AR-22 has a taller profile with a higher center of gravity, higher optic line, higher barrel bed over support, and balance point farther to the rear... Lots of bad things for shootability compared to a 10/22... So even if the barrels are of equal potential, the shootability is far degraded in the AR-22.
My 10/22 has a Volquartsen trigger and a AE Brown barrel in a Boyd's stock the scope is a Bushnell Engage 6-24X.
My AR22 is a PSA upper on a poverty pony lower with a Larue MBT2 trigger and has a US Optic TS12 scope.
Near as I can tell they're pretty close. There's better barrels available for the 10/22 and mine is just installed with the factory v block and screws, so I suspect I could squeeze some more accuracy out of it.
But I could probably get someone to make me a match barrel with a bentz chamber for my AR.
My AR22 is a PSA upper on a poverty pony lower with a Larue MBT2 trigger and has a US Optic TS12 scope.
Near as I can tell they're pretty close. There's better barrels available for the 10/22 and mine is just installed with the factory v block and screws, so I suspect I could squeeze some more accuracy out of it.
But I could probably get someone to make me a match barrel with a bentz chamber for my AR.
@mcb has it right. The barrel and ammunition are going to be the 95% to 99% of accuracy.
My one and only 10./22, (early 80's) I could take a round, place it in the chamber, and rock it by pressing on the rim. That's a very loose chamber. I called Ruger, they were building these rifles for the rock busters who brag about never cleaning their rifles. Ruger knew its customer.
That barrel would shoot over the counter ammunition and Eley match into an inch at 50 yards. It liked copper coated Federal best. When I had a Volquartzen barrel installed, it would shoot that Eley into a dime, and all the rest were still hovering inch or less. Stingers, I don't care what tube they were shot in, I could see flyers as they hit the target.
I don't have a later Ruger 10/22, was told the barrels got better. What I can say, I saw tricked out 10/22 with match barrels, stocks, triggers, and they shot as well as an Anschutz with expensive match ammunition.
Don't have an AR 22lr, but take a look at the ergonomics. I like the AR pistol grip as it places the hand in a very stress free postion when pulling the trigger. Be surprised how much trigger pull and your grip move groups around. If the stock weld is repeatable, that is a good thing. You will never shoot well if your head is in a different place on the stock from magazine to magazine.
Shoot smallbore prone, and you will see these things. And the wind. After you get it all down, the wind moves those 22lr bullets around, and it does not take much wind.
My one and only 10./22, (early 80's) I could take a round, place it in the chamber, and rock it by pressing on the rim. That's a very loose chamber. I called Ruger, they were building these rifles for the rock busters who brag about never cleaning their rifles. Ruger knew its customer.
That barrel would shoot over the counter ammunition and Eley match into an inch at 50 yards. It liked copper coated Federal best. When I had a Volquartzen barrel installed, it would shoot that Eley into a dime, and all the rest were still hovering inch or less. Stingers, I don't care what tube they were shot in, I could see flyers as they hit the target.
I don't have a later Ruger 10/22, was told the barrels got better. What I can say, I saw tricked out 10/22 with match barrels, stocks, triggers, and they shot as well as an Anschutz with expensive match ammunition.
Don't have an AR 22lr, but take a look at the ergonomics. I like the AR pistol grip as it places the hand in a very stress free postion when pulling the trigger. Be surprised how much trigger pull and your grip move groups around. If the stock weld is repeatable, that is a good thing. You will never shoot well if your head is in a different place on the stock from magazine to magazine.
Shoot smallbore prone, and you will see these things. And the wind. After you get it all down, the wind moves those 22lr bullets around, and it does not take much wind.
Varminterror
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It also puts the hand a LONG way below the bore line, and offers a LOT of torque against the rifle due to the increased leverage.
This increased leverage is one of the reasons so many folks point to the AR's as more difficult to shoot well than bolt guns - that tall profile is a problem. It's the same contributor to error as that which drives competitive shooters to NOT wrap their thumbs around pistol grips on their rifles, and why thumb rests exist on many competition rifles.
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I have an AR-22 that simulates an AR-15 A2 that I used for Service Rifle practice. It is more accurate than a stock, out of the box Ruger 10/22. It is a DPMS Upper and simulates shooting full power ammunition fairly well for rapid fire and slow fire drills..
I have a short barrel 22 LR AR-15 which is fun to shoot but is not as accurate as a stock 10/22.
A 22LR AR-15 is a bit more complicated vs a centerfire version. A 10/22 or other similar 22 LR semi-auto are more fitted to the performance of 22 LR.
So, in my opinion, it depends.
I have a short barrel 22 LR AR-15 which is fun to shoot but is not as accurate as a stock 10/22.
A 22LR AR-15 is a bit more complicated vs a centerfire version. A 10/22 or other similar 22 LR semi-auto are more fitted to the performance of 22 LR.
So, in my opinion, it depends.
jmorris
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At really close ranges (inside 25 yards) the sight height of the AR’s make them less useful to me.
CraigC
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A 10/22 with a good barrel is going to shoot circles around the AR.
That saying has never made sense to me, is that supposed to be a good thing lol.
In all seriousness I've seen a couple reviews on the JP supermatch 22lr upper and looks like it'll run with most any "good barrel" in a 10-22.
mcb
Member
Is there really any substantial difference between the two plateforms, 10/22 vs AR in 22LR? Both are hammer fired, blow-back semi-autos; both can be setup with free floated barrels and both are good platforms for mounting just about any optics you could want; both have many good options for excellent trigger upgrades; both have a huge variety of stocks/furniture to tailor the platform to shooter/application. If we are just trying to shoot little groups I can't think of anything that makes one substantially better or worst than the other. Sink enough money into either and I would think sub 1-MOA groups at 100 would be equally possible with either, again with the quality of the barrel and ammo being the primary drivers assuming it has a decent trigger and sufficient optic for the range.
The AR platform can be extremely accurate. No reason a .22 AR can’t be as well. My Tactical Solutions AR upper is very accurate with ammo it likes.
Varminterror
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If we (over)simplify most systems to their base definitions, things become trivial. There a dude out of TX and another out of Oklahoma I shoot with at PRS matches occasionally, we're all 3 middle aged men, we all shoot PRS, we're all engineers, all 3 of us married men, all 3 of us married to brunette women, all 3 of us wrestled in high school, all 3 of us have kids, all 3 of us wear corrective lenses.
But Rod is over 7ft tall, I'm 5'10", and Joe is 5'4", Rod's over 300lbs, I'm relatively lean 200, and Joe is a portly 250 - you might imagine, our pant sizes vary considerably, let alone how we all can engage different obstacles...
When it comes to the 10/22 vs. AR-22's, part of me inevitably turns to competitive shooting sports as a measure of performance. Is there any shooting sport where accuracy/precision is measured where AR-22's are remotely competitive? 10/22's aren't really either, but they're generally right on the ragged edge of acceptable - I'm not sure I've ever seen an AR-22 being fielded for the purpose?
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CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I reckon "running" circles around your competition would probably be better than "shooting circles" around them.
Market availability for one, affordability for another. That JP barrel mavracer referred to is over $500, their complete uppers are $900. I don't know of any other AR .22LR setup that would be as accurate. Whereas anybody with $200-$500 can buy a good (or great) 10/22 barrel and slap it on in minutes. For that same $900, you can get a complete KIDD Supergrade barreled receiver with bolt.
I also don't know what they do to accurize the action. Most .22LR conversions or dedicated uppers are rather chintzy. My own CMMG .22LR upper is less accurate than a stock 10/22 carbine. Great for a trainer, not so much for anything else. Whereas you can either accurize the factory Ruger bolt, or buy one that is made to tighter tolerances. I have several KIDD bolts and they work very well.
For $40 you can have a decent sub-3lb trigger in the Ruger. I don't remember paying less than $200 for any of my Geissele triggers in my AR's.
It's really less about the AR platform in general and more about the .22LR version of that platform and the way they're built. They're not typically made for precision but to be reliable trainers that use cheaper ammo.
Talk about some cognitive bias cherry picking.
The JP barrel comes with the complete bolt and a charging handle. So by the time you add a Kid Bolt recoil spring and a charging knob the barrel prices are pretty comparable.
PSA just had Geissele SSA-E on sale for 150 and it ain't like there's plenty of good triggers cheaper than that.
I'm also quite sure I can make my AR shoot a lot worse than any 10/22 without even "trying".
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Never heard anyone discussing the advantages or disadvantages of hand position and bore line. And rifle design ignores it.
This is the rifle of Joe Farmer, Senior Smallbore National Champion. That grip is way below the bore.
this Anschutz prone stock style has to date from the 1960's.
This is from 1964
McMillian copied the Anschutz stock for high power shooters
When I shot AR15's in NRA competition, I used my nose to touch the cocking handle to determine stock weld. Except standing,. Standing, you put the stock in the same place on your shoulder, and your head touched the same place on the stock. Of course, everyone who did this, kept 20 shots inside seven inches at 200 yards during standing slow fire. Well, at least I learned to keep all my 20 shots on an eight foot by eight foot target.
Bud of mine did is standing at 100 yards. With irons! The ten ring is 3.35 inches. Bud was not limited by the pistol grip's distance from the bore. Be assured, he had figured out a repeatable stock weld.
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CraigC
Sixgun Nut
It's not bias talking, it's experience and facts. I have 9 AR15's, including one dedicated to a CMMG .22LR upper, why would I be biased against them???
The JP steel barrel is $525, bolt or not. Their ultralight barrel is $735. A KIDD ultralight barrel can be had for as little as $224. Double or triple for the JP is kind of a big difference. You don't need the KIDD bolt for your 10/22.
Okay, so the Geissele can be had on sale for $150. It's still a 3-4lb trigger for $150. The VQ target hammer is $40.
Fact, you can buy a cheap used 10/22 for $250 (on the high side), add a KIDD barrel and VQ target hammer for $514. Less than what the JP steel barrel goes for. Not saying one is "better" than the other but there's no denying that the AR option costs a lot more. I paid $570 just for my CMMG upper, which shoots like crap.
Not the question, nor what you claimed. Both have the same basic accuracy potential. Both can be crap. Very accurate.22 rifles tend to be expensive, and need relatively expensive ammo to do so.I reckon "running" circles around your competition would probably be better than "shooting circles" around them.
Market availability for one, affordability for another. That JP barrel mavracer referred to is over $500, their complete uppers are $900. I don't know of any other AR .22LR setup that would be as accurate. Whereas anybody with $200-$500 can buy a good (or great) 10/22 barrel and slap it on in minutes. For that same $900, you can get a complete KIDD Supergrade barreled receiver with bolt.
I also don't know what they do to accurize the action. Most .22LR conversions or dedicated uppers are rather chintzy. My own CMMG .22LR upper is less accurate than a stock 10/22 carbine. Great for a trainer, not so much for anything else. Whereas you can either accurize the factory Ruger bolt, or buy one that is made to tighter tolerances. I have several KIDD bolts and they work very well.
For $40 you can have a decent sub-3lb trigger in the Ruger. I don't remember paying less than $200 for any of my Geissele triggers in my AR's.
It's really less about the AR platform in general and more about the .22LR version of that platform and the way they're built. They're not typically made for precision but to be reliable trainers that use cheaper ammo.
