15 year old shot by bicyclist

[PBIR]

I tell you what, some of you need a reality check.

IMHO a 15 year-old pregnant girl isn't at all innocent.

So females who have had sex are free game for murder?

"No officer, you've got it all wrong! It was alright for me to explode her head like an over-ripe watermelon with my .357 magnum. She hit me with a deep fried potato string and she is a fornicator!!! She had it coming, I tell you!!!

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

You know, these forums are fair game to anyone on the internet. Is this the mentality we (firearm enthusiasts) need out there for the world to see? There is nothing to prevent these sort of comments from showing up in anti-gun propaganda.

 

[Standing Wolf]

The victim's family told 12 News that the group in the minivan was throwing french fries and other food and likely hit the biker.

See? That proves it! French fries cause crime. We need to register every French fry and license French fry owners.

 

[joab]

I think there is much more to this story than we are hearing.
Generally what is admitted to is about half of the story

 

[benewton]

Can't both sides lose?

Doubt that the whole story will ever get told, but I fail to see any significant loss to society in the killing of a pregnant female of 15 out past midnight on any night.

On the other hand, since throwing objects at people isn't normally considered by police/officialdom as an assault....

Still, while I've the means, I never want to have to fire, and I object to those who do so without a hugely good reason to do so.

So, perhaps both will lose in the end.

The problem is, how to arrange thing so it costs the rest of us nothing.

 

[joab]

but I fail to see any significant loss to society in the killing of a pregnant female of 15 out past midnight on any night

DAMN!!!!!!!!

 

[PBIR]

I fail to see any significant loss to society in the killing of a pregnant female of 15 out past midnight on any night

Judging by that remark there are countless things you fail to see. Try and remember that attitude when it's your daughter.

 

[cracked butt]

I find nothing suprising about this story, its pretty much par for the course in Milwaukee on any given day. The G--d--- governor and the politicos of Milwaukee will not allow citizens of our state to carry concealed weapons, but punks like this do it illegally everyday. I'm going to call a spade a spade here- the man was a punk and a criminal as he was willing to break the law and carry a gun while law abiding citizens can not, then go shoot someone over a trivial matter.

Nothing that happens in Milwaukee suprises me anymore. If it isn't a gangbanger murdering a woman and her kids execution style outside of a restaurant so he can have their bucket of chicken, its wolfpacks of teenages running around beating people to death. I wish the whole damn city would slide into Lake Michigan

 

[Warren]

Does WonderNine live in Wisconsin?

 

[Oleg Volk]

Considering the short range of a thrown french fry, I'd think the shooting was in response to being almost run over by a van. If so, that was an attempted homicide...but we don't have the full story here.

As for the death being no loss, again, that depends on the actions of the deceased. And even then, it was probably a loss to her parents, of companionship or of revenue, or both.

 

[XLMiguel]

Sounds like sleazebags all around. Re: loss to society, hard to tell, younguns often outgrow adlescent onset crainial rectitus to become productive members of society, though known track record to date ain't encouraging.

Cracked Butt, I usta sail on L. Michigan and it was polluted enough, lets wish a good fire on 'em instead.

Mostly, this is an object lesson that actions and choices have consequence. Unfortunately, no one really seems to be paying attention to the lesson.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Most likely there is a lot more to be told here, though doubtless it will not surface soon. Whatever the situation was, it is hard for me to see how a biker who had time to fire at the van, could not have in the same amount of time relatively easily evaded the van and broken contact with the occupants without involving gunfire. Not my intent to pick on assaulted bikers, just trying to analyze the deadly force equation here. And IMHO it doesn't add up to justifiable in any way I can see, given the story as presented so far. Even given an apparent attempt by the van driver to employ the vehicle as a deadly weapon, the attempt wasn't successful if the biker could open fire. And if an attempt by the driver failed, _and the driver did not repeat the attempt_, a lethal reposte would still seem questionable.

But stupidity can still be fatal, to self or others, and never requires justification...

lpl/nc

 

[Josey]

Oleg, I 100% agree. the welfare/SSI/WIC/food stamps that 15 y/o and her baby would have brought into that family is lost now. I guess the family will file a wrongful death suit through a legal services attorney that the taxpayers fund. The shooter would have to be caught first. I sense that the entire truth is not being told or there is media bias.

 

[Rebeldon]

They should sue McDonald's!!!!

They didn't print any warning on the side of the French fry box about how throwing French fries at bicyclists can result in serious injury or death.

 

[joab]

The victim's family told 12 News that the group in the minivan was throwing french fries and other food and likely hit the biker.

This is the phrase that got my attention. Instead of "Had thrown some fries" , to me, this implies that it was a sustained attack. Maybe I'm just splittin hairs though

However I would think that the high roady attitude to take would be to analize the actions of the victim that may or may not have contributed to the event, not make assumptions about her social economic position based on her chastity, race or the fact that she was out late during summer break, or the fact that her family name was Seet pea.

 

[JohnKSa]

I think this story is going to develop a bit...seems to me some details are missing.

1. How many grown men are out on bicycles at 2:30AM on a weeknight?
2. How does a bicyclist catch up to a car?
3. A minivan with "many passengers" including a pregnant 15 year old is kind of an interesting vehicle to be on the road at 2:30AM.
4. "throwing french fries and other food and likely hit the biker" is an interesting statement coming from the victim's family. I wonder if other food items could include beverage bottles and maybe anything else loose in the car?
5. Pulled up to the car and "started shooting" at a minivan with "many passengers" and only one person was hit?

 

[aut2no]

What a thread

so funny:

"Well, they should certainly outlaw french fry boxes that hold more than ten frys!" Vern Humphreys

so sad:
" but I fail to see any significant loss to society in the killing of a pregnant female of 15 out past midnight on any night." benewton

 

[Nightfa11]

1. How many grown men are out on bicycles at 2:30AM on a weeknight?

Good Question


2. How does a bicyclist catch up to a car?

Stop light?

3. A minivan with "many passengers" including a pregnant 15 year old is kind of an interesting vehicle to be on the road at 2:30AM.

Another good question, and directly related to #1

4. "throwing french fries and other food and likely hit the biker" is an interesting statement coming from the victim's family. I wonder if other food items could include beverage bottles and maybe anything else loose in the car?

It certainly could. And if the driver was also a teenager (or anyone for that matter) a certain amount of swerving is almost necessary. Does anyone else think this story MIGHT be a bit lopsided

5. Pulled up to the car and "started shooting" at a minivan with "many passengers" and only one person was hit?

Here's where it gets interesting. Where did all the bullets go? Can the police tell if the van was moving or sitting still. The angle of shot penetration might also tell if the person sped away (if possible, caught behind someone at a stop light sort of traps you). How many times was she hit? Where was she sitting? Lots of unanswered questions.

The verdict: A tragedy, and one we know so little about, it is IMPOSSIBLE to judge. I think it's possible that the guy was a loony who retaliated with far too much force. I also think it's possible that the driver made threatening lurches with the van at the bicycle, thereby leaving the rider in fear for his life (Police have shot people before for the same thing).

I consider both possibilities equal, and further take the advice that my 15 year old will NOT be out that late w/o parental suprvision

 

[Molly]

Don't bring a French fry to a gun fight.

 

[gunsmith]

uh

The victim's family told 12 News that the group in the minivan was throwing french fries and other food and likely hit the biker.

Don't do that!

 

[cracked butt]

I think alot of people ARE missing an important point here. In Milwaukee as well as in the entire state of Wisconsin, it is ILLEGAL to carry a concealed weapon, this very fact does not deter a large number of people from doing so anyhow- I would bet a large portion of them have a criminal history.

Second of all, a bicycle is far more maneuverable than a van. A guy on a bike getting something thrown at him can easily turn down an ally or a sidestreet to get away and later make a police report. Retaliating by firing into a van because someone threw something at you is a CRIMINAL act.

Its this kind of crap that comes up when CCW is discussed in that the 'blood of innocent children' will run in the streets if we allow citizens to carry protection.

15 year old pregnant girl? So what. It happens all of the time. Being Black, 15 and pregnant does not make one a criminal nor someone who deserves to be executed by some nutjob, and whether or not she collected welfare is irrelevant, she was still a human being. I know plenty of white girls who were pregnant at similar ages, some of them collected welfare, others did not.

If the people in the van were not shot at, it might have been another vehicle that was attacked if they somehow offended the man's thin ego, and it could have been one of our mothers, sisters, or daughters that might have been shot.

Anyone who thinks the shooter was anywhere near being right in his actions needs to have there head checked.

 

[gunsmith]

Bike Messengers

Face crap like this all the time. If you don't have a car then riding a bike is better then walking. Sure you can hop on a side walk or something...
But when you ride a bike every day for transportation or work you realize that the vast majority of car drivers are oblivious to how dangerous their cars are. Car (owners) kill and maim at much higher numbers then gun (owners)...I have had people threaten my life even though I was obeying every rule of the road.
I'm willing to bet the car occupants did more then hit the guy with a french fry.
It's still wrong of course but YOU try using only your bike for transportation for a few months and you will have a new perspective.


People feel it's ok to threaten cyclist for just being on the same road as their car...I don't know if this is what happened but it looks like it.

 

[cracked butt]

Gunsmith- I don't think this whole ordeal has anything to do with a bicycle or bicycle messengers, and if I were in either one of those categories I sure wouldn't want to relate to the man. The man was just a thug who happened to be carrying a gun and riding a bicycle.

If you were riding a bicycle for work and carrying, being a rational human being, I doubt that you would pull up to a vehicle and unload your gun into it because they happened to cut you off or nearly sideswiped you a block back.

 

[Beren]

Gunsmith:

I agree with you fully. I usually only bicycle in the evenings or on weekends, but there are many, many drivers who are aggressive and hostile even though I am in full compliance with the law. I make every effort not to hold up traffic, but some people cannot be pleased. There are certainly circumstances under which a bicyclist would be justified in using lethal force to defend themselves, especially in urban areas where it's not as easy to flee off-road.

I have had *school buses* try to run me off the road, and kids on the bus threw trash at me as the bus passed. Not an event justifying lethal force, obviously, but it did result in an irate cellphone call to the school in question and a complaint to the school board. I usually consider thrown debris from cars to be aggravated assault - even a plastic bottle with some water in it can do considerable damage to you if it hits at 30-40 MPH. (Not to mention what happens if its impact causes you to crash.)

We don't know the full story with this guy. From the account in the paper, his actions were unjustified. The account in the paper, of course, is incomplete and probably biased. I've heard some complain that "the guy was carrying a gun illegally" as though that makes him guilty by default. Whatever happened to "rather be judged by twelve than carried by six?"

The occupants in the van were not, however, "innocent victims." They appear to have instigated the chain of events leading to the girl's death, and the girl herself appears to have been a willing particpant in that instigation. No, it doesn't justify what the shooter did - but I highly doubt any shooting would have taken place had the occupants of the van not deigned to throw objects at the biker.

 

[MikeB]

I have in the past ridden a bike everywhere - work, grocery store, etc. for a period of two years. Including at almost 2:30 in the morning on my way to a third shift job. Most people that don't ride bikes don't understand just how dangerous having things thrown at you can be. While the bicyclist should probably have tried to disengage, a case for self-defense when assaulted on a bike can be made. Yes throwing things at people is an ASSAULT - regardless of what is thrown, the target of the throwing wouldn't necessarily know what was coming at them.

Now that being said - I wasn't there and there is a whole lot of important facts left out of that article.

 

[jefnvk]

Not to get this topic of-topic, but I'll bet that the man gets charged for two murders.

Anyway, A group of teens driving around at 2:30 is not a bad thing always. I do it quite often with my friends. Those same teens throwing things at bikers just makes them idiots in my opinion, or someone that is looking for trouble. By that same theory, guys riding bikes around with guns in a city is not necessarialy a bad thing eiher. Shooting someone throwing food at him also makes him an idiot or someone looking for trouble. It is obvious that we do not know all the facts. Perhaps there was something between these people already, and this incident pushed him over the edge. maybe the driver did attempt to hit them. Propbbly the only story you will hear is the girls friends/family's, even if this man is caught.