150 or 168 grn COPPER for 308?

Robert said:
No they don't. The four deer I've shot with TSX or similar all copper bullets, save one, was DRT. And she went in a tight circle, went down, tried to get up but couldn't. No more than 5 feet from where she was originally standing.

All shots were either heart/lung. Well one I missed the heart on a bad wind read at 325y and was only a double lung hit. No need to bust shoulders, aim for the boiler room and they perform just fine.

All were 150gr out of a 308 Winchester M70.
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Gun-Reck said:
Run 168 gr. TSX in a 24" .30-06.

Anything less, would opt for the 150 gr.

Velocity makes copper bullets effective.
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Goosey said:
The 150 TTSX component bullet is tougher than the 150 TTSX that is loaded in the VOR-TX .308 and .30-06 factory ammo.
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I don't normally ask for references/citations, but on this one, I will. Nothing personal, and I'm not saying yore lying, but I can't think of any reason why a manufacturer wouldn't use the same projectile in their loaded ammo and in their component ammo. It doesn't make sense on a marketing level, a logistics level, or a manufacturing level.
 
D.B. Cooper said:
I don't normally ask for references/citations, but on this one, I will. Nothing personal, and I'm not saying yore lying, but I can't think of any reason why a manufacturer wouldn't use the same projectile in their loaded ammo and in their component ammo. It doesn't make sense on a marketing level, a logistics level, or a manufacturing level.
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It seems odd, but that's what I read on another forum. The post was dated October 25, 2022.

"I reached out to Barnes asking if I should step down to the 150 grain bullet since I am loosing about 120 fps with my 18" barrel as I was concerned about expansion and there reply was:

'The beautiful thing about the 168 gr TTSX is it was designed with a low impact velocity for expansion for cartridges like the 308 Win and 30-06; 1500 fps. At that impact velocity you will see 1.7x expansion diameter of the original bullet diameter. If 2x expansion diameter is desired raise the 1500 fps to 1600 fps. Now, the 150 gr TTSX for reloading is designed with a 2000 fps minimum in case reloaders shoot it from a 300 magnum cartridge where the 150 TTSX shot from our factory loaded Vor-Tx ammo in 308 Win or 30-06 is rated to expand down to 1600 fps. Clear as mud? You’ll be able to reach out further than you thought with your 308 Win.'"
 
D.B. Cooper said:
For those of you who said "lighter/faster bullet" you're right. Did some cursory research, which Ishould have done before I posted here, and found the the 150 grn is 2100fps at 400 yrds w/ 21" of drop and the 168 grn falls below 2000 fps just after 300 yrds.
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Whereas the .30-06/168 gr. (24" barrel) hits around 2150 fps at 300 yds. w/ 8.5" drop, which is enough for most practical hunting needs.
 
Gun-Reck said:
Whereas the .30-06/168 gr. (24" barrel) hits around 2150 fps at 300 yds. w/ 8.5" drop, which is enough for most practical hunting needs.
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Barrel length is huge in this equation. Like I said, it's not my gun. In any event, no disrespect to Jeff Cooper, but I never embraced the whole "Scout Rifle" concept.
 
D.B. Cooper said:
Barrel length is huge in this equation. Like I said, it's not my gun. In any event, no disrespect to Jeff Cooper, but I never embraced the whole "Scout Rifle" concept.
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As a deep woods deer rifle it makes a lot of sense. Once you get out to 200 yds and beyond, (more or less) it's utility begins to diminish.
 
Typical recommendation is to go down in grain size with copper mono's as compared to typical hunting ammo found in the particular caliber. With 308 WIN typical hunting ammo is 150-168gr., with probably the lion share being 150gr.

This is due to they are longer due to copper's lower density, and they rely on velocity to perform in targets. Copper bullets due to their length relative to their mass have a greater sectional density so they will penetrate deeper with weights being equal between them and a traditional cup and core bullet.

For a 308 Win I would favor 130's but if 150's or 168's are all you have available or desire to use I would favor 150's due to the aforementioned reasons.
 
Goosey said:
It seems odd, but that's what I read on another forum. The post was dated October 25, 2022.

"I reached out to Barnes asking if I should step down to the 150 grain bullet since I am loosing about 120 fps with my 18" barrel as I was concerned about expansion and there reply was:

'The beautiful thing about the 168 gr TTSX is it was designed with a low impact velocity for expansion for cartridges like the 308 Win and 30-06; 1500 fps. At that impact velocity you will see 1.7x expansion diameter of the original bullet diameter. If 2x expansion diameter is desired raise the 1500 fps to 1600 fps. Now, the 150 gr TTSX for reloading is designed with a 2000 fps minimum in case reloaders shoot it from a 300 magnum cartridge where the 150 TTSX shot from our factory loaded Vor-Tx ammo in 308 Win or 30-06 is rated to expand down to 1600 fps. Clear as mud? You’ll be able to reach out further than you thought with your 308 Win.'"
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I don't know about the differing construction on the 150s, but that part about the 168gr TTSX matches what the Barnes technician I talked to told me. Basically the 168gr TTSX was the first bullet to have all the design features that they later propagated across their offerings as the LRX line of bullets. The 168gr was the first LRX, complete with better form factor and lower opening velocity, but after the LRX line split off, they elected to keep the 168gr as a TTSX, I suppose so as not to unnecessarily confuse buyers.
 
Disclaimer…I’m not a ballistics expert by any stretch. I have a recently acquired 308 with 18” barrel and am awaiting suppressor. My goal is to kill whitetail at 300 yards.

In January 2023 I called Barnes and asked about their factory loaded Vortex TTSX for 308. I’m pasting their reply which I posted on THR a while back. Hope this is helpful to you. These are their words, not mine. See below.

“ Spoke with a very nice, and seemingly knowledgeable Barnes tech guy on the phone. A+ for their thoughtfulness and the time their people take with customers btw.

Speaking to their factory loaded 308 Vor Tx TTSX loads, velocity thresholds for expansion are as follows

130 gr Vor Tx TTSX 308 win 1800 fps for 1.75 X expansion and around 2000 fps for 2X expansion

150 gr Vor Tx TTSX 308 Win 1500 fps for 1.75 X expansion and around 1800 fps for 2 X expansion

168 gr Vor Tx TTSX 308 Win are the same for the 150 gr listed above

This is per the rep unless I transcribed incorrectly or misunderstood. I don’t think I wrote incorrectly or misunderstood though”

End quote.
 
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