1851 navy 36 caliber for deer and hogs will it be enough?

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midland man said:
lol well I've seen guys kill wild hogs with 22 rifles and pistols and but there was others who told them it can't be done...
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And this is your supporting evidence? Elephants have been killed with swords and spears, does that make it a good idea? So please, unless the discussion is restricted to hogs caught in traps, let us dispense with the absurd .22 references.
 
The fact that you think it is a valid point queues my exit from this discussion.

I anxiously await the stunt report.
 
And all is quiet on the western front. Experience to me talks a better line than statistics. I think we have all done something at one time or another that breaks the mold of " common" knowledge. I know what I have done in the past works for me, like killing a deer at over 300 yards with a 94 Winchester after being told it was only good for 100 yards. Or my previous post about the silhouette range. If it works and you're comfortable with it, then go for it.
 
Jackrabbit1957 said:
And all is quiet on the western front. Experience to me talks a better line than statistics. I think we have all done something at one time or another that breaks the mold of " common" knowledge. I know what I have done in the past works for me, like killing a deer at over 300 yards with a 94 Winchester after being told it was only good for 100 yards. Or my previous post about the silhouette range. If it works and you're comfortable with it, then go for it.
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yep jackrabbit I also hunt with a win 94 30-30 and I was told for years that the 94 was only good for 100yrds and under but that's not true!
 
maint1517 said:
Ok, before you go. Honest question here.
What caliber handgun do you recommend for hogs?
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Like jackrabbit has said, I also believe, especially in the case of BP and a ball. However I would not choose a .36 cal, especially with a ball, for hogs. I wouldn’t do so with a wide nosed bullet either.

There’s a lot of handgun hog hunting here in TX. The outfitters generally feel the .357 Mag with a heavy hard cast wide meplat bullet is the minimum. It doesn’t take quite that much to achieve the penetration needed, but I’d not want to go armed with something barely capable, especially when a boar with a thick shield may be what you find yourself shooting.

There’s an old military account of a smallish grizzly bear being shot a bunch of times by soldiers armed with .36 cal percussion pistols. Eventually an officer armed with a Dragoon showed up and killed it with 2 shots. Upon skinning it they found the .36 cal balls hadn’t penetrated more than 2” in the fat. I believe the Dragoon was loaded with conicals, but don’t recall specifically.

I’d be comfortable using a .44 cal cap n ball gun IF it were loaded with a wide meplat bullet and energetic powder. Regardless my opinion has always been large caliber when it comes to handguns or slower moving projectiles. The wound size and projectile mass are important.

This isn’t to say a .36 cal with a ball cannot perform the task. But it’s less than ideal and would require ideal circumstance much like using a .22 rimfire. An ear shot doesn’t need much, but a vitals shot certainly does. And if a second shot is needed you’ll certainly want a lot more.
 
What percentage of meplat do you recommend for hogs with a .45/250 grain or on the 190?

My understanding is that 75-80%+ of major diameter is thought to be about right. (?)
 
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What I’ve read is that they’ve found meplats starting at around 70% to be good and every little increase made large differences. What some claim is that after about 78% in higher velocities (mainly the .45-70) that it behaved erratically by either not being as accurate or by not plowing straight through. But LBT disagrees with this and sells plenty of wider meplat bullets to people loading them at high velocities and taking game at longer ranges. I believe I posted a link to that here in one of these “can it do it” threads recently. I’ll have to reread Sixguns to see if Elmer Keith mentioned much on his findings when designing a wide meplat bullet for his .44 Spl killers.

My cap n ball bullets have 83% meplats. But I intend to modify my designs and have considered reducing the meplat to 78% or just keeping it at .375”.

Did you happen to see the Beartooth bullet wound cavity estimates by meplat size and speed? Another wide meplat designer...

I don’t know that I’d use a handgun beyond 25 yds as I’m just not that steady and haven’t practiced further. Maybe if I had a good rest. In light of that I’m not concerned with accuracy issues (their’s were both for further ranges and much higher speeds) and think the larger the meplat the bigger the permanent wound cavity and that is good when dealing with something that may just fight back. I’m not familiar with how a full wadcutter behaves but I don’t think I’d care for quite that extreme though.
 
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John L Venable said:
Shoot a big guy in the shoulder with one round and he'll come after you and beat you to the ground, yeah people die from 22's, but not many, and its an infrequent head or heart shot. Bad analogy.
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Not true. When a .22 enters a chest cavity it starts bouncing off bones playing pinball with vital organs. Ricocheting off ribs, spine,sternum,even pelvis.
I worked with the local rescue squad for years. I responded to several shootings. Two of which with .22lr ended up being fatal due to what I just described. And a third where a young hunter accidentally discharged a.22 rifle he was getting out of a truck. The bullet entered his inner forearm,ricocheted on bone, entered his armpit, ricocheted on bone and ended up embedded in his left leg just above the knee. Luckily he survived, but with limited use of that arm.
At the same time,if it hits large bone on entry you can forget it. It'll glance right off and pi$$ a hog off. And .22 is no chance against a hogs shoulder shield. Even my .22wmr won't touch it. It has to be a head shot.
 
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maint1517 said:
playing pinball with vital organs
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Over the years I’ve needed to become conversant in any number of autopsy reports on homicides involving shootings. Some involved .22’s and obviously the subject was dead. It always amazed me how many vital organs can be holed by just one bullet once it begins to bounce around in the thoracic cavity. If a .22 hits bone it will more likely bounce than go through.

Maint’s phrase quoted above is a very descriptive and accurate way to put it. Sure, a .22 has major limitations and is not to be considered for many applications - but it will also kill yer ass. Happens all the time.
 
An icepick in the ear is instantly fatal but it isn't very practical, is it?

Seriously, the .22 references are 100% unproductive.
 
CraigC said:
An icepick in the ear is instantly fatal but it isn't very practical, is it?

Seriously, the .22 references are 100% unproductive.
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As you observed above, killing elephants with swords and spears "isn't very practical", either. A true thing but not exactly a revelation. Same deal with icepicks. Maybe you should just tell us what we can discuss or even yourself contribute something and show us how to be100% productive.
 
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CraigC said:
The fact that you think it is a valid point queues my exit from this discussion.

I anxiously await the stunt report.
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Since none of my experiences matter maybe I should just hang up all my guns, modern and black powder as they are way too under powered to hunt with or even shoot target with. That's the way this fellow seems to view this thread. I don't consider a lot of shots I've made to be stunts. Some of these posts above are made by guys who have seen the damage done by both large and small caliber bullets and a couple of them sound very professional, as in medical or law enforcement. I would take their word on this subject seriously until proven otherwise. And no I wouldn't go after hogs with a .22 either, tho I have killed quite a few with a shot between the eyes to butcher with a .22.
 
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