1858 Remington

[Parys]

Hi all, being new on The Highroad you might have discussed this topic before. If so please excuse me. I bought a 1858 Remington Santa Barbara in May this year. bought it at a Church fate action for R2000. About $100. Still in a very good condition. In South Africa a C&B does not need to be registered. I have read a lot about the Santa Barbara an did find that they were made between 1970 and 1975. Apparently about 16500 were made. Mine being 15000 something was made in 1975. My question is I want to use a Howel conversion cylinder. I did find out that the Pietta cylinder fits perfectly in my SB. I have fitted a Pietta cylinder, nice tight fit, no play. Has anyone tried this before?
I have to ship a cylinder from the states and would like to make sure.

Thanks Parys

 

[Jeff62]

Welcome Boet.
I have nothing to offer re your post other than to say that I too am a fan of cap and ball revolvers and anything that shoots black powder.
I’m sure someone will chime in with the advice you need.
I have a rifle, Enfield 577, my Bro that lives in Irene suggested I name Sanna. She is Sanna.

 

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Parys,

If you can fit a Pietta cylinder and make it function, there is no reason the Howell wouldn't be the same.
One thing to check is the Bolt Notch Width. 1858 Pietta's built in the year 2000 and prior the bolt notch width was 0.136".
The ones built in 2001 and later are 0.156" wide. I would measure the bolt notch on your Santa Barbara and make sure
you state fact that your planning on using the cylinder in a Santa Barbara when ordering.
In my records I do have dimensions on two Santa Barbara 1858 Cylinders, both being about 0.004" to 0.005" shorter then my Pietta's.
I don't have the bolt notch width dimension or the cylinder pin dimension. Both are listed with percussion and a Howell conversion cylinder.

AntiqueSledMan.

 

[drobs]

Before spending all that Rand on converting it to fire cartridges, you should 1st shoot it with Black Powder, Cap, and Ball.

It's a lot of smokey good fun.

 

[Armored farmer]

Before spending all that Rand on converting it to fire cartridges, you should 1st shoot it with Black Powder, Cap, and Ball.

It's a lot of smokey good fun.

My thoughts also.

 

[Parys]

Thanks for the welkom Jeff, Sanna sounds nice. the name Sanna came from the British Boer war in the late 1800's. the Boers use to call there rifles Sanna's. Thanks for the info AntiqueSledMan. I do not want to sound like an idiot but if you say "Bolt Notch Width" do you meen the notch on the cylinder where the hammer lies in between the nipples? that size on my SB is 4.1mm, 01614". The length of my SB cylinder is 51.15mm, 2.01377" if I am correct. Cylinder pin on my SB is 7mm, 0.2755" and I read that the Pietta is the same.

Parys

 

[Parys]

Hi Drobs and Armored farmer, I will shoot it with Black Powder, Cap, and Ball first. Have to try it for sure. that is why I need to know if the Conversion will be a simple slide in fit. I DO NOT want to modify my SB. It is to nice a Piece to do that. Mine is in expellant condition. I understand they are in a better class than some of the other makes. Apparently sought after?

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

He's talking about the cylinder stop cuts that the bolt head drops into. If the conversion cylinder has cuts that are less wide than the original cylinder you will have to fit the bolt head to match, otherwise it won't lock up.

 

[Parys]

He's talking about the cylinder stop cuts that the bolt head drops into. If the conversion cylinder has cuts that are less wide than the original cylinder you will have to fit the bolt head to match, otherwise it won't lock up.

Thanks, got it. on my SB they measure 3.8mm, 01496". will give this info to Howell for the conversion and see if it corresponds.

 

[woodnbow]

Hi all, being new on The Highroad you might have discussed this topic before. If so please excuse me. I bought a 1858 Remington Santa Barbara in May this year. bought it at a Church fate action for R2000. About $100. Still in a very good condition. In South Africa a C&B does not need to be registered. I have read a lot about the Santa Barbara an did find that they were made between 1970 and 1975. Apparently about 16500 were made. Mine being 15000 something was made in 1975. My question is I want to use a Howel conversion cylinder. I did find out that the Pietta cylinder fits perfectly in my SB. I have fitted a Pietta cylinder, nice tight fit, no play. Has anyone tried this before?
I have to ship a cylinder from the states and would like to make sure.

Thanks Parys

Perhaps someone with a Howell could take measurements from his? Those Santa Barbara’s were very well made guns made of high quality steel. And you bought yours for about 20% more than it’s original sale price!

you’ll find more information here… http://santa-barbara-1858.org/index.php/en/project-1858

 

[hawg]

Pietta has used two different widths of cylinder notches. I know they went to CNC around 2000 but I don't know when they changed notch size. I "think" the newer ones have wider notches.

 

[Parys]

Perhaps someone with a Howell could take measurements from his? Those Santa Barbara’s were very well made guns made of high quality steel. And you bought yours for about 20% more than it’s original sale price!

Thanks woodnbow, your idea for measurements would work. the Conversion cylinder I want is the Howell "Pietta Steel blued 1858 Army 45 LC 6 Round Conversion Cylinder". I did find all my info from "Project 1858", even got the manufacturing year list from his website. cant seem to get in contact with him to give him my SB info for his registry. His email: [email protected] , don't seam to work

 

[Parys]

Pietta has used two different widths of cylinder notches. I know they went to CNC around 2000 but I don't know when they changed notch size. I "think" the newer ones have wider notches.

Think I will then have to use the older version. Just dropped a mail to Howell to see what they have to say on the matter

 

[Onty]

I am not in those conversion cylinders, but from what I know, because cylinder walls on 44 Remington 1858 are quite tin, and in order to fit 6 chambers for 45 Colt, they have to somewhat angled. Apparently, accuracy didn't suffer to much, but those thin cylinder walls make me wary. If i am in your shoes, I would rather go 5 bore cylinder, but equally spaced:



I had seen somewhere (not sure, for 1858, or one of those top open revolvers) odd spaced 5 bore cylinder. I might be wrong, but I distaste those weird designs. They just don't look right, especially when there is just one position to safely rest the hammer.

 

[Parys]

Hi Onty, I am not to worried about the 6 chamber's thin walls as I believe that a company as Howell's cant afford to use inferior metals. If the walls are thin like they are on a 6 chamber they will I presume use stronger metal, beter tempered. I am not a competition shooter, just a hobbyist shooting ever so often.

 

[hawg]

Either one of those cylinders will handle anything you put in them. The soft steel of the frames is the weak point.

 

[woodnbow]

Either one of those cylinders will handle anything you put in them. The soft steel of the frames is the weak point.

I’d wager the Santa Barbara and Uberti are the stoutest of the available guns. Including original Remingtons. From the 1858 project website:

“Actually, according to an analysis of the frame material, it was made from a low alloy structural steel 31CrSiMo4 meeting DIN 17006 standards. The barrel consist of alloyed heat-treated steel, 42CrMo meeting DIN 17200. This tempered steel is also used for the manufacture of critical moving parts such as connecting rods, gearbox parts, and cog wheels. The third part of the trio, the cylinder was also produced from alloyed heat-treated steel 34CrMo4 in accord with DIN 17200. One finds this material also in truck axels. As a unit, this is a firearm whose material application suffices for high demands.”

The uberti frame and cylinder is forged while the Pietta is made of recycled Fiat fenders. (All true, I read that on the internet!)

 

[Rustmangler]

I want a Fiat gun. I hope it runs better than the cars.

 

[1KPerDay]

I have a recent 6-shot .45 Colt Pietta 1858 conversion cylinder from Taylor’s/Howell and can try to take some measurements if it helps.

 

[hawg]

The uberti frame and cylinder is forged while the Pietta is made of recycled Fiat fenders. (All true, I read that on the internet!)

Yeah, yeah, yeah and Norinco 1911's are made out of RR iron. Forging vs cast isn't an issue. All Rugers are cast. Uberti Remingtons made before 2007 are cast. I'm not sure when they started forging Colt frames, maybe 2008. They're still soft steel.

 

[Rustmangler]

Now they make razor blades from RR iron.

 

[Parys]

I have a recent 6-shot .45 Colt Pietta 1858 conversion cylinder from Taylor’s/Howell and can try to take some measurements if it helps.

Thanks, I would really appreciate if you could.

 

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Parys,

The Bolt is the little block which raises up from the bottom of the Frame to secure the Cylinder while in battery.
The Bolt Notch (not sure if this is the correct name) is the cut out where the Bolt will rest in the Cylinder while in battery.
The Width is simply how wide the notch is, from side to side as looking from the end of the Cylinder.
My Howell Cylinder measures, length = 2.0156", diameter = 1.625", arbor hole = 0.2773", bolt notch = 0.160".
All measurements were made with a dial caliper, so take them as you wish they should be close.
My Cylinder is for the Pietta in .44 Colt Original, shooting a .451" Heeled Bullet, lots of fun both loading & shooting.

AntiqueSledMan.

 

[Parys]

My Howell Cylinder measures, length = 2.0156", diameter = 1.625", arbor hole = 0.2773", bolt notch = 0.160".
All measurements were made with a dial caliper, so take them as you wish they should be close.

My SB is slightly different. Bolt notch width being 3.8mm 0.1496" Cylinder length 51.15mm 2.01377" Cylinder dia 41.1mm 1.618" Cylinder pin 7mm 0.2755". Dont know if these tolerances are acceptable. Bolt Notch with being the biggest differences with 0.2mm 0.00787"?. Still waiting for Howell to answer my mail.

 

[Parys]

AntiqueSledMan, out of curiosity, does your original Pietta cylinder and the Howell Cylinder measure the same or is there a tolerance difference.